20 replies to this topic

[Rujio]

Well, all of the other tier lists are rather old and/or not being updated, so I'm gonna post this one, taken from FEG:

Ephraim:

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-Seth-

Seth

-Top-

Franz
Duessel
Ephraim
Vanessa
Colm

-High-

Cormag
Gerik
Tethys
Kyle
Lute
Artur
Forde
Moulder

-Upper Mid-

Natasha
Joshua
Eirika
Gilliam
Garcia
Tana
Myrrh

-Lower Mid-

Saleh
Dozla
Ross
Neimi

-Low-

Knoll
L'Arachel
Rennac
Innes

-Bottom-

Syrene
Ewan
Marisa
Amelia

Eirika:

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-Seth-

Seth

-Top-

Franz
Vanessa
Colm

-High-

Eirika
Gerik
Tethys
Kyle
Lute
Artur
Forde
Moulder

-Upper Mid-

Saleh
Natasha
Joshua
Ephraim
Innes
Gilliam
Garcia
Cormag
Duessel

-Lower Mid-

Tana
Myrrh
Dozla
Ross
Neimi

-Low-

Knoll
L'Arachel
Rennac

-Bottom-

Syrene
Marisa
Ewan
Amelia

Rules:
1: This tier list assumes "Limited Seth Efficiency." So, we're going for minimum turn counts possible with the current team. Seth use is limited so as to prevent a huge portion of the cast from auto-bottoming.
2: It is assumed that you go from chapter to chapter immediately. No shopping on the map, no tower.
3: No boss/arena/RNG abuse. It takes too long and completely destroys the idea of "efficiency."

Debate away!

List of changes:
Eph. Ewan>Marisa

[StrongJoshua]

What is Joshua doing in upper-mid???? He should at least be in High!! Ewan is amazing, except for the fact that you have to tower abuse him!!

[Shrodu]

My list for "Suckers" are as follows. (Normal playthrough. No arena. No tower. No monster campaign)


Marisa, Ewan, Garcia, Amelia, Knoll, Syrene, Vanessa, Forde, Moulder, and Franz.


That's off the top of my head for guys that suck.

[Rujio]

I'll add some rules at the top. That oughta help with explaining tier positions some.

[badkiara]

[StrongJoshua]

Is it abuse if a strong character weakens an enemy and then a weak one finishes him off? If yes then I agree Ross isn't that great, but if not then I say he is actually pretty good.

[Blood Falcon]

^Look, tower abusing is a cheap way to raise your units because you can do it over, and over again until everyone is level 20 and then you would be able to just breeze through the game. That's why tower abusing is cheap and not considered in tier lists.

With Ross, he is 10 levels below everyone else and it takes a lot of time to baby him, destroying the possiblility of decent effiency. Even when he does promote to a pirate/fighter, he doesn't do that until chapter 7 or so, and he'll be about 10 levels behind everyone else still.

@The tierlist:
Why is Duessel so high? He only has about five movement, and not very good stats to make up for his low movement, ruining your effiency. Colm needs to be higher since he brings weapons from chests to help you get through the chapters faster and easier.

[StrongJoshua]

^I always use Ross and I don't usually tower abuse until after the game, Ross is amazing you just need to use him against weaker enemies. Right I'm in chapter 6 and my Ross is only a level 8 journeyman and yet, with an iron axe, he does 17 damage to a normal soldier!!!

[Rujio]

Ross can't level very well without destroying efficiency. He can maybe grab about a level in chapter 2 and 3 combined. Maybe 2-3 in chapter 4. Maybe another one or two in chapter 5. I don't know how much he can do in FoW chapter 6. He gets left behind in chapter 7 if he isn't promoted (fairly likely), and pretty similar in chapter 8. He's promoting to pirate around the route split. Awesome.

PEMN. (Personal Experience Means Nothing)

What do you mean Duessel doesn't have good stats? He's like Seth if Seth joined later. 41 HP/17 DEF/9 RES is by far the best defensive stats you'll get. A axes means easy access to Garm, which means +5 SPD. Even before then, he doesn't have THAT much trouble doubling, and is indeed one of the absolute best choices for a speedwing so that he keeps doubling. He does a ton of damage per hit, so doubling is guaranteed kill. He's also a great candidate for the boots so that his awesome stats can keep up with your team, which, in this game, is probably largely 7-8 MOV units.

Also, I was gonna write up something on Syrene to Low Tier and possibly > Eph. Innes. You guys can jump in if you have any comments on that, first.

[Blood Falcon]

Good point about Duessel, but just a note, I thought you couldn't use power ups in tierlists?

Ephraim Innes> Syrene. Eph. Innes can easily eliminate flying units, including Valter, who can be a big nuisance. He has fair movement and makes up for a not raised Neimi. With Syrene, she comes late, not providing much effiency. If you do believe the argument that she will be able to fly units around the maps, making the maps go by faster, she can't do that really. She has terrible stats IIRC, and when she rescues someone, that halves her speed and skill, she would easily be killed by the enemies.

[Rujio]

Why on earth would we not let us use stat boosters?

Uh, we're not gonna have Syrene rescue someone and then try to use her as an offensive tool. She's either ferrying people or attacking.

Why is Innes getting to Valter before we kill him? Our entire team is down there and we get a Dragon Axe right there, too. IIRC, we've also got a Dragon Lance from earlier. And there's a Wyrmslayer close to the start. Why would we wait for him to get down there when we can just effective weapon him to death earlier?

[Seraphinox]

On Ephraim, Ewan above Marisa, he comes with a dragonshield. she doesn't.

Or do we not count the items they come with?

[Rujio]

They count. Actually, they're both awful at first, but he does better against high DEF units (those enemies where we need chip damage the most) and grows faster. He's also not reliant on a 20 use weapon that Marisa's not even necessarily getting. Joshua/Eirika could easily be3-4HKOing and getting more out of it than her. Later on, he's doing more damage per-hit everywhere, and eventually gets heal+summons. And attacking at 2-range means we don't have to heal him. Yeah, Eph. Ewan>Eph. Marisa sounds possible. In fact, Marisa as the worst unit on both lists sounds POSSIBLE. Do they both come with their stat boosters on both routes (Amelia and Ewan?)

[Seraphinox]

[Rujio]

We're promoting him ASAP in 15. He's easily the best with it and the odds are that no one else really needs it, so he gets it. And by the time you get to L'arachel, I doubt there are many enemies left in 11, so she can't do much there. Then in chapter 12 we get Saleh who beats her in every area at first, and probably forever with how little healing is used in FE8.

[Seraphinox]

Is it crazy for me to see on Eirika route, Gilliam > Innes?

Gilliam comes early, has strong defence, WTA while Innes just has bows

I'll go more in-depth if you like...

Edit: And so are we agreed on Marisa being bottom on both lists?

[Rujio]

Well, Gill never doubles and has low MOV, so he's not getting to do much most of the time. 2RKOing is fine for a while, but later on, he's still 2RKOing with 4 MOV, while we've got Franz, Forde, Kyle, Seth, Vanessa, Tana, and Cormag who can all be blasting ahead. After promotion, a few more people can grab horsies and join them. Now, he's a decent candidate for the boots (or w/e they are in this game) with Duessel being the only real competition, but by that point, he's already probably so far behind we can't do much. At least Innes can KO some enemies for us around midgame. I don't think everyone's consistently ORKOing yet, so he's giving us a few extra kills to let us speed up some. I don't know that Gill really saves turns anywhere early. Except maybe 4.

I don't see any huge problem with Marisa to bottom on both, but I'm only 100% convinced on Eph. Ewan>Marisa. Eir. Ewan joins after her, so she's got a bigger starting lead on him. Amelia's chip damage is so awful that I'm not really sure if the speedwing makes up for it.

[Seraphinox]

Riddle me this, I can see on Eirika list Moulder moving above Forde...

[Rujio]

I dunno. He's nice for a few chapters, but then we get Natasha who can do basically everything he does until the route split. Come the route split, he's probably about level 8-9 (that's what happens in pretty much all efficient playthroughs. Lots of evidence) which means that he's not going to be getting any sort of good combat soon. Not only that, but in 11 L'arachel shows up, and her +1 MOV might make her better, although her extreme fragility isn't good. Chapter 12 is pretty bad for her) and in 12, Saleh shows up and outclasses him everywhere except staff rank. Of course, he's still got plenty of time to grab physics, so...

Meanwhile, Forde can rush ahead with all of your mounted units and has great combat. I'm not really seeing Moulder>Forde myself, but if you have more to say on the matter, I'm all ears.

[Falaflame]