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FE7 HHM Efficiency Tier List
#1
Posted 24 February 2010 - 01:47 AM
Marcus
Raven
Priscilla
Serra
Ninian/Nils
Matthew
Lowen
Sain
Kent
-High-
Oswin
Hector
Erk
Eliwood
Lucius
Guy
-UpMid-
Pent
Harken
Geitz
Florina
Canas
Dart
Hawkeye
Dorcas
Legault
Isadora
Fiora
-LoMid-
Rebecca
Bartre
Rath
Heath
Farina
Lyn
-Low-
Jaffar
Karel
Athos
Vaida
Louise
Wil
-Bottom-
Wallace
Renault
Karla
Nino
Since this'll be easier to deal with than one for both games together.
Oh, and someone else can put up an FE6 Tier List if they want. I don't really care enough about FE6 to manage a tier list, although I'd probably contribute.
???????
QUOTE |
Bobryk -- holy crap I look away for two seconds and I have knots all up in my shit |
#2
Posted 24 February 2010 - 01:57 AM
Also, Tino already created a HHM tierlist, and Seraph already created a FE6 HM tierlist.

I won't remove this until I get a killtacular in Halo MLG- Started December 29, 2010.
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Bloodfalcon22-pokemanzz cnt dye FELover3- If I beat the shit out of them they do |
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Rujio -- Cows are more important than anything. Rujio -- ANYTHING |
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Blood Falcon -- Hey bblues, are you able to ban the GoogleBot? bblues -- I don't think so. Blood Falcon -- Damn, lol. bblues -- He's above the law : P |
QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm) |
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#3
Posted 24 February 2010 - 02:16 AM
First three- more detail- where do they go, and why? Direct comparisons please.
Renault>Wallace made unless others disagree. I'll wait and see what others think, though.
Lowen > Kent/Sain cuz of availability and better defense. If you can prove that his offense is ever significantly worse, though, I'll move him down.
Lyn>Farina will also be made unless others disagree. This is efficiency, so she can nab all the lancereavers she wants, so I don't see her having much in the way of problems w/ durability against lancers lategame..
I personally agree that Hawkeye>Dart, but this is efficiency, so the Ocean Seal doesn't mean much. I'm not gonna change that without a more in depth comparison.
???????
QUOTE |
Bobryk -- holy crap I look away for two seconds and I have knots all up in my shit |
#4
Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:22 PM
QUOTE (Rujio @ February 23, 2010 09:16 pm) |
It's a ways back and this is a more updated list. First three- more detail- where do they go, and why? Direct comparisons please. Renault>Wallace made unless others disagree. I'll wait and see what others think, though. Lowen > Kent/Sain cuz of availability and better defense. If you can prove that his offense is ever significantly worse, though, I'll move him down. Lyn>Farina will also be made unless others disagree. This is efficiency, so she can nab all the lancereavers she wants, so I don't see her having much in the way of problems w/ durability against lancers lategame.. I personally agree that Hawkeye>Dart, but this is efficiency, so the Ocean Seal doesn't mean much. I'm not gonna change that without a more in depth comparison. |
Renault hits Res, has Fortify staff, and heals when necessary. Yes, he > Wallace.
Lowen > Kent/Sain due to not only his massive defense/avoid, but he has higher attack as well due to Fire affinity. Fire x Fire with Rebecca is <3.
Do not forget Lancereavers have REALLY limited uses and rly expensive as hell. That's why I'm hesitant to say anything on Lyn and Farina.
Fighting the ghosts of my past. I'd rather not remember who I once used to be..
#5
Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:21 PM
I suggest moving the worst of the cavs to High or moving Oswin down further.
QUOTE (Racer) |
Six demons. Six prayers. Six pillars that can never fall. Those who seek to disturb those pillars ...find only death. My prayer is to be faster than anyone. |
#6
Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:49 AM
QUOTE (Mercenary @ March 20, 2010 08:22 am) |
Lowen > Kent/Sain due to not only his massive defense/avoid, but he has higher attack as well due to Fire affinity. Fire x Fire with Rebecca is <3. |
An A support will take an extremely long time and probably won't reach there since you can't turn abuse due to efficiency mode. Even with an A support the very best that you can reach is +3 attack. If you want the support and Rebecca not to die then you'll need to raise her too, and in HHM EXP is gold.
IIRC HHM tierlists assume LHM so that gives Sain 10 whole chapters( which includes not being in prologue) to get plenty of EXP before coming back compared to Lowen's 5 or so chapters to level up . By the time Sain comes back, he'll be a strength tank to kill anyone in his way. Also, you're not including Sain's support bonuses.
Lowen doesn't have very good speed either. level 20/1( Lowen/Sain): 13.4/14.6, Level 20/10: 16.1/18.2, level 20/20: 19.1/22.2
For Lowen's overall stats, only his luck(barely) and his defense are over 20 at level 20/20. Not very good, and in HHM you can't afford that much of a cost, especially considering that he probably won't even reach 20/20. With enemies' stats are highly boosted in HHM he won't be doing that damage you need him to, and assuming he gets to around 20/17 at endgame, 22 defense doesn't make that wall you need to make the insane enemy stats.
For Sain overall stats, he maxes out strength at a very early time compared to most others(20/9), making him a great powerhouse to kill enemies easily. As shown before, his speed isn't shabby either, he'll double a lot more often that Lowen will, making his damage output fantastic. And if you say, "Oh but Sain has less skill than Lowen!" then let's do a little skill comparison:
20/1( Lowen/Sain):11.4/11.65, 20/10: 14.1/14.8, 20/20: 17.1/18.3. So Lowen's skill is not that much better than Sain's, and even if you have a problem with Sain's skill, then you can just give him an iron sword or lance, and his strength will make up for it.
More comments on tierlist: I'm not sure if funds matter in efficiency mode, but if it does then shoot Dart down to low-middle. An Ocean seal is worth 40K. And how's Heath> Jaffar? Jaffar starts at an extremely high level with a killing edge. By 20/20 he maxes out strength and has fantastic speed and skill. Using him over Matthew saves you 33 levels+Fell contract , and 25 levels+Fell contract if you use Jaffar instead of Legault. Those are both very valuable amounts of EXP that can be used towards other units along with the occasional auto-kill skill. What does Heath have? You can't afford or able to raise him in HHM due to his level, and even you magically raise him, he won't be much use anymore because you spent 4 chapters babying him, which isn't very good in efficiency mode to be frank.
Direct comparisons like you asked earlier:
Oswin inbetween Legault and Isadora, while he may be a good shield, his low movement kills your efficiency. He's below Legault because Legault brings lots of items to your party, above Isadora because Isadora has such terrible stats that she won't be able to do much in HHM. Hector under Oswin because not only will he have a hard time catching up with your team due to his movement, but he also has a late promotion, making him difficult to raise. I guess Matthew is fine, but why is Serra so high? Sure she can heal but there are much better choices such as Priscilla.
Lol, I made this one freaking long post, my bad.

I won't remove this until I get a killtacular in Halo MLG- Started December 29, 2010.
QUOTE |
Bloodfalcon22-pokemanzz cnt dye FELover3- If I beat the shit out of them they do |
QUOTE |
Rujio -- Cows are more important than anything. Rujio -- ANYTHING |
QUOTE |
Blood Falcon -- Hey bblues, are you able to ban the GoogleBot? bblues -- I don't think so. Blood Falcon -- Damn, lol. bblues -- He's above the law : P |
QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm) |
Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol. |
#7
Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:52 AM
QUOTE (Bloodfalcon22 @ March 21, 2010 12:49 am) | ||
An A support will take an extremely long time and probably won't reach there since you can't turn abuse due to efficiency mode. Even with an A support the very best that you can reach is +3 attack. If you want the support and Rebecca not to die then you'll need to raise her too, and in HHM EXP is gold. IIRC HHM tierlists assume LHM so that gives Sain 10 whole chapters( which includes not being in prologue) to get plenty of EXP before coming back compared to Lowen's 5 or so chapters to level up . By the time Sain comes back, he'll be a strength tank to kill anyone in his way. Also, you're not including Sain's support bonuses. Lowen doesn't have very good speed either. level 20/1( Lowen/Sain): 13.4/14.6, Level 20/10: 16.1/18.2, level 20/20: 19.1/22.2 For Lowen's overall stats, only his luck(barely) and his defense are over 20 at level 20/20. Not very good, and in HHM you can't afford that much of a cost, especially considering that he probably won't even reach 20/20. With enemies' stats are highly boosted in HHM he won't be doing that damage you need him to, and assuming he gets to around 20/17 at endgame, 22 defense doesn't make that wall you need to make the insane enemy stats. For Sain overall stats, he maxes out strength at a very early time compared to most others(20/9), making him a great powerhouse to kill enemies easily. As shown before, his speed isn't shabby either, he'll double a lot more often that Lowen will, making his damage output fantastic. And if you say, "Oh but Sain has less skill than Lowen!" then let's do a little skill comparison: 20/1( Lowen/Sain):11.4/11.65, 20/10: 14.1/14.8, 20/20: 17.1/18.3. So Lowen's skill is not that much better than Sain's, and even if you have a problem with Sain's skill, then you can just give him an iron sword or lance, and his strength will make up for it. More comments on tierlist: I'm sure if funds matter in efficiency mode, but if does then shoot Dart down to low-middle. An Ocean seal is worth 40K. Lol, I made this one freaking long post, my bad. |
Um, Sain is not going to be at a higher level than Lowen. Almost every enemy in LHM is Lv 1 or 2. Sain is not going to be at Lv 11 because the EXP gain is sh!t. Lv 7 at tops. That should be about the level Lowen should be when they rejoin with Lyn (well, Lowen might be higher...). I dont know what you mean there. At least where Lowen starts, the enemy levels DO increase, which means more EXP. I think you mentioned EXP is golden, right?
Lowen is a mother of a tank. Marcus isn't going to be everywhere. So of course it would make sense to have Lowen take the front lines and absorb damage. Sain isnt there to ease the pain like Lowen is in HHM. Lowen wins there.
You mentioned +3 Str from Rebecca, but you failed to take the avoid bonus in question. Lowen has the highest avoid of the Paladins. (except lol Isadora maybe) What can Sain say about that? If Lowen isn't dodging, he's taking barely any damage. Then you failed to mention Eliwood and Marcus as possible other support options. Those can raise the str too (Eliwood by 2, Marcus by 1). By the time Lowen joins up with Sain, he has this:
8/0
C Eliwood, C Rebecca
Iron Lance:
28 HP, 18 ATK, 104 Hit, 9 AS, 9 Def, 2 Res, 34 Avo, 8 Crit Avo
And Sain is...
7/0
Iron Lance
24 HP, 19 ATK, 95 Hit, 8 AS, 7 Def, 1 Res, 22 Avo, 6 Crit Avo
They are fulfilling the same role right now, except Lowen has higher durability by far (lol 2 Def and 4 HP and 12 avo). Of course, Sain's going to get a lot more Str than that, I will agree, but Lowen is no slacker if he maintains full supports (about 21 or 22 Str towards endgame with supports if he doesn't go 20/20. )
You say 22 def at 20/17 is not enough, how's 15 Def going to be that much better? Neither's getting doubled, and whoever does double Lowen does lol damage. Usually swordy enemies. Other enemies will simply just not hit him at all due to his superior Avo. Yes, Sain has supports, but his fail Wind affinity doesn't allow him to gain any def or avo at all.
Lowen's superior durability and supports more than makes up for his lack of attacking stats. Why should the other two cavaliers be better than him?
Fighting the ghosts of my past. I'd rather not remember who I once used to be..
#8
Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:36 AM
QUOTE (Racer) |
Six demons. Six prayers. Six pillars that can never fall. Those who seek to disturb those pillars ...find only death. My prayer is to be faster than anyone. |
#9
Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:50 AM
QUOTE (Racer @ March 21, 2010 02:36 am) |
@Lowen's lower offense- Use Steel weapons. He has enough Con for them. Hit hardly matters in FE7 anyway. |
Lets not forget Lowen loses 0 AS from a Steel Sword. lol 15 atk @ beginning
Fighting the ghosts of my past. I'd rather not remember who I once used to be..
#10
Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:05 AM
lol@rebecca support. LoMid character and 38 turns to C and another 40 for each rank? In order to have C Rebecca by chapter 16, he'd need to spend 7-8 turns a chapter next to her. For Eliwood, it's 6. Neither supports are likely. In fact, most supports in this game aren't likely.
Lowen>other cavs for being around in the hardest part of the game.
Oswin isn't that much slower than your other units, and this isn't FE4. Especially earlygame, his movement isn't slowing you down that much while his stats make him a mini-Marcus. As for the crest, there are earth seals available. Hector has Wolf Beil and is forced, so whatever he does helps. And his movement isn't huge since he actually has as much movement as many of your units for a long time. And then there are seize maps where he's the limit to how fast you can go.
Heath can grab a Pure Water and have fun in the desert chapter. He's training AND being very positive. Jaffar just isn't around very long and isn't anything special while he is around. And the whole "no promo needed" isn't huge since we don't care about funds.
???????
QUOTE |
Bobryk -- holy crap I look away for two seconds and I have knots all up in my shit |
#11
Posted 24 March 2010 - 04:28 AM
And Farina should be higher, IMO, if funds don't matter. She can easily take on the right half of her join chapter to catch up in levels and so that you can spend more time on the left and central fortresses. She has the best stats out of all of the flying units, anyway so the only things they have on her is join time.
QUOTE (Racer) |
Six demons. Six prayers. Six pillars that can never fall. Those who seek to disturb those pillars ...find only death. My prayer is to be faster than anyone. |
#12
Posted 24 March 2010 - 12:59 PM
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QUOTE |
Bobryk -- holy crap I look away for two seconds and I have knots all up in my shit |
#13
Posted 24 March 2010 - 02:51 PM
And also, Dart's Ocean Seal is now an issue for him as he takes up 25k gold worth of resale value which could be spent on 50k worth of weapons.
And I'm not seeing why you need to 'slow down' to deal with Farina. She flies up to Hector, initiates her own recruitment, plus the fastest way to finish Chapter 25H is to use her or bring along a flying unit or a Berserker just for the right side of the map (All on your list are mid tier and lower, so not very likely).
Assuming Eliwood is 20/- by Chapter 25, and Farina gets to maybe 19/- by the end of that same chapter.
Eliwood A Hector C Lowen w/ Steel Sword (Killing): 23 (24) Mt, 16 (46) Crt, 12 (15) AS.
Farina w/ Steel Lance (Killer): 23 Mt, 8 (38) Crt, 10 (14) AS.
If we promote Farina prematurely at 19/1, she'll overtake Eliwood in Mt, draw with his AS (with Killer weapons), still losing out in Crt, though. She also gets +3 move on him and partial WTC. Farina's actually among the better units in FE7, statwise. She just comes a little late for her level and has that huge price tag on her.
I'm not sure about how you're looking at funds, so I can't really tell what you should do with Farina.
QUOTE (Racer) |
Six demons. Six prayers. Six pillars that can never fall. Those who seek to disturb those pillars ...find only death. My prayer is to be faster than anyone. |
#14
Posted 24 March 2010 - 09:29 PM
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QUOTE |
Bobryk -- holy crap I look away for two seconds and I have knots all up in my shit |
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