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@  xcrash1998 : (23 November 2017 - 08:12 PM) I mean in terms of how they sell their games and then there are DLC's and every thing. Nintendo is clearly going into that kind of direction. (Actually is doing that already). Not that I am against them trying to keep profit high to stay in the business but there needs to be a better way.
@  xcrash1998 : (23 November 2017 - 08:09 PM) How do you think will nintendo change in the future
@  Fire Blazer : (13 November 2017 - 08:55 PM) lol, perhaps
@  kirant : (13 November 2017 - 07:19 PM) I assume nostalgia hits as soon as we get old enough to "fall out" of things.
@  Rujio : (13 November 2017 - 03:57 PM) aren't we supposed to be too young for nostalgia or something?
@  Fire Blazer : (13 November 2017 - 06:08 AM) yet it feels bad since somewhere in my heart I miss all that
@  Fire Blazer : (13 November 2017 - 06:08 AM) and even if i am i dont find myself talking about video games much like the old days. esp. not serious conversations on forums
@  Fire Blazer : (13 November 2017 - 06:08 AM) :( idk man i'm hardly even into FE anymore
@  xcrash1998 : (12 November 2017 - 09:50 PM) hi
@  Rujio : (12 November 2017 - 05:46 PM) I mean I'm actually around pretty frequently. But we never do anything.
@  Idiot : (12 November 2017 - 04:13 PM) Not since the fire nation attacked...
@  Valke : (12 November 2017 - 10:07 AM) hi hello anyone here
@  Idiot : (11 November 2017 - 07:51 AM) Blegh, even
@  Idiot : (10 November 2017 - 05:11 PM) same
@  Fire Blazer : (10 November 2017 - 04:54 AM) meh
@  Fire Blazer : (07 November 2017 - 04:52 AM) yeah, seems fine to me
@  kirant : (04 November 2017 - 07:51 PM) To update the Crunchyroll thing: according to their Twitter page, they've fixed their website.
@  Mercurius : (04 November 2017 - 04:43 PM) if for whatever reason anyone else here hasn't been informed yet, Crunchyroll is currently dangerous to visit due to having been hacked.
@  Fire Blazer : (03 November 2017 - 11:41 PM) and maybe if I have extra budget I can hire Kirant to act as the creative producer on a new AW-like game
@  Fire Blazer : (03 November 2017 - 11:40 PM) anyway, seems we're in agreement with the IS thing, lol. FE is what it is now, we gotta live with that and/or move on I guess, haha. this is why I plan to make my own FE-like game one day

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#21 Falcon Punch!!

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 06:56 PM

You guys are right. I did something wrong and I ignored everything you said and continued to do wrong across this thread. You probably could care less about an apology, but I will deliver it anyway: I'm sorry. I never meant to make you guys angry with me for my wrongdoings. If it even matters anymore to you guys, I will apologize to the creator of these sprites for stealing them. I hope you guys will find it somewhere to forgive my crimes and wrongdoings. Have a great rest of your day, and I will abide by your suggestion and leave this forum. Thanks again.


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#22 Elwood

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 05:32 AM

Aaaaaand this is why we can't get new members. <_<

 

I'm glad you admitted to using those sprites without the authors permission. It is a serious thing but if you admit it (which you have) and just don't do it again you can usually recover from it as far as the community is concerned. That being said I do think Merc was WAY to harsh. What you did was wrong but nothing to be run off the forum for. Maybe I'm just a way too nice sucker who likes to find the best in people but that's how I see it. You made a mistake and should get a second chance.

 

This has happened and what's done is done but if you would like to stay I would suggest following Zac's advice of starting over and posting some of your own stuff. Then we can help you solve this issue without all this unpleasantness. If you still want to leave though I completely understand.


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#23 kirant

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:35 AM

MOD MODE ENGAGED

 

Okay guys.  I think we all need to take a step back and get a sandwich or something.  Everybody's being a little testy and I don't think it's helping anybody.

 

MOD MODE DISENGAGED

 

Let's start from the top.  I'll try to rationalize all my opinions out in one post.  Please be aware that I'm only seeing half the story because, as notable by posts #1 and #2, both by the topic creator, that there's at least one case of deleting posts for reasons beyond my comprehension.

 

therealroro22

 - I'm not sure what your background is regarding intellectual works (if you've dealt with them before).  I would let you know that intellectual property is still a thing regarding Fire Emblem modification.  It's certainly much more frontier justice than elsewhere, as none of us are ever going to go through real courts to make this argument for whatever little damage we could prove in front of a judge, but I would certainly note that it's very rude and a violation of social protocol if you don't acquire the correct agreements first.  I know many artists who do speak along the lines of "just give me credit in non-pay projects, contact me if you're making a paid version", but this is an artist-to-artist issue and, again, you should at the very least attempt to determine the artist's opinion on usage. 

 - I'm not trying to be mean to you.  Nor is anybody else for that matter.  I think it's a case of all of us wanting the best for you but it coming out as a dog pile because we're all seeing the same issue and want to prevent it from becoming a real problem.  A real life example would be when I was 5...I was about to touch a piece of red hot iron and a bunch of adults caught me at the last second.  They were yelling at me to stop.  I had no clue what was going on and cried (because adults are scary and loud noises are scarier).  I think it's very similar here...we don't want to see you be on the wrong end of a verbal assault/community outrage (in the case that the artist has no interest in lending the piece out and wants to extract revenge for that violation) and are all trying to warn you now to avert course before that disaster occurs, even if it's just a possibility.

 

zac (Because this forum's cut/paste style is wreaking havoc with my 3 AM brain)

 

"If I knew I was supposed to get credit"? Really? I don't say this to be rude or anything, but isn't it common sense to give credit to someone if you use their work? Isn't it common sense to ask someone's permission before using their work? Even if you don't know how forums work that's a rule of life.

 

 - I know I'm guilty of it myself sometimes but try do a gut check if your sentence works out to "I don't mean to be [x], but..." as you almost invariably come off as [x].  Actually, the best advice told upon me was "re-read your post in the snarkiest voice you can muster.  That's how it'll be interpreted".  (EDIT - Fixed some pronoun issues)

 - Please be aware of context as context is king.  Not of all users work in environments where stuff like intellectual property comes up frequently.  I could imagine, for example, a 12 year old having no clue that he needs to credit stuff.  Heck, I'm pretty sure my 10 year old fanfic writing self had some pretty horrific breaches given that the final product borrowed zealously from a friend's fanfic.  On the same website.  I don't know, nor will I presume, the history that therealroro22 has with past projects.  I can't tell you if this is just an innocent mistake or malicious stealing without a further reading (which I get later and it pretty much is 100% an innocent mistake).

 

MOD MODE ENGAGED

 

Mercurius

 - Please don't be inflammatory to other users.  I can't reword that in a better way.  I like my job being lazy and I don't want to enforce rules unless I have to. You're not helping the situation here and, as moderator, I've got to set lines in the sand in accordance with our rules.  I consulted the original rules as entered by Tino and your post is dangerously in line with violation.  If you don't like a person, that's fine.  I'm sure I don't like some posters on forums and I'm sure some don't like me.  There are ignore buttons and the like for a reason.  Don't click their topics.  Whatever.  But spitting acid at them until you get your way is the least useful thing you can do as it typically violates rules.  This forum is no exception.  This will probably be my one warning to you to ensure that you stay in line with the relevant rules.  Further incident will result in moderator action on my behalf.  Don't make my job more than logging in and realizing posts exist.

 

I'm going to make a sandwich or go to bed now.  Whichever is easier.  Internet drama is a pain and my stress relief was playing a drinking game to the number of times I just said "rules".

 

MOD MODE DISENGAGED


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#24 Mercurius

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 01:32 PM

Please be aware that I'm only seeing half the story because, as notable by posts #1 and #2, both by the topic creator, that there's at least one case of deleting posts for reasons beyond my comprehension.

It's not anything that should change your judgment of the situation, but the two relevant posts are:

1: Explanation of why simply giving credit is only relevant in situations where the work is already labled free for use as long as credit is given, and the risk of ostracization should roro continue to do so (replied to by post #5)

2: Question that demands mentioning why he is unable to avoid sprite theft entirely when he says: "I can't fix this minor error I have now, so I just have remind everyone about it before they play lol." (never replied to, either before post #7 or post #9, but probably before #7 as that one confirms they are still using the stolen portrait.)

 

At this point I'm being threatening afterwards(since post #11) because no reaction at this point only really told me one of two things at the time:

1: "lol it's this insecure idiot who thinks saying things on the internet matters, hey guys who want to help me so what do I do with this stolen portrait" (which I refrained from taking into assumption)

2: "Wait, that was a problem, right...better try to be unassuming/lighthearted about it so they don't notice, I still don't know what I'm supposed to do with it after all." (which I took to be the more favorable reason, even if the former is easily fairly likely)

 

2 is kind of the result of a lack of foresight(on roro's end) but it's probably the result of not being very experienced with successfully dodging responsibility. Trying to be more formal about asking for this information(again) would give the impression that I'm trying to look like I have any kind of authority, so I just went for declaration of their failures to hide their activities, even if what they were trying to go for is hiding in plain sight.

 

I'm not trying to be mean to you.  Nor is anybody else for that matter.  I think it's a case of all of us wanting the best for you but it coming out as a dog pile because we're all seeing the same issue and want to prevent it from becoming a real problem.  I think it's very similar here...we don't want to see you be on the wrong end of a verbal assault/community outrage (in the case that the artist has no interest in lending the piece out and wants to extract revenge for that violation) and are all trying to warn you now to avert course before that disaster occurs, even if it's just a possibility.

I (the only one that was actually aggressive about anything) don't care about what's best for him. I'm only in defense of the creator of the portrait, and by proxy anyone else who makes them, so dispelling it from becoming a real problem later on happened to be something worth trying. At the point they chose to pull the ignorance card to revoke blame I decided there was no reason for this person to actually feel like they have a reason to refrain from sprite theft (and even now I only take the apology as an attempt to try looking like the upstanding one here to save face) and due to how everything points towards roro being a beginner, I'd rather that they remove themselves from the premises entirely by seeing the place not worth coming to, or even all Fire Emblem communities by blanketing us as all being assholes and not wanting to be one of us as a result. It's not like it's the first time we've ever had to deal with internet slander if they want to lower our reputation(we slander ourselves enough talking shit about other forums in the same overall community, and even the game franchise we revolve around), so any damage they would try to do outside of the relevant activities(spriting, modding, playing the games, etc.) wouldn't be anything worth being concerned about.

 

There are ignore buttons and the like for a reason.  Don't click their topics.  Whatever. 

Those are only relevant in situations where I want to avoid someone in particular for their behavior and interests(and only one person on it ever shows up anyway.) I don't really care about roro, I'm only concerned with the appearance of a sprite thief and potential support given to him by other members.

 

Though I don't think there's any need to do this with you, kirant, I'll still say that right now, I have no intention of dodging responsibility myself in our current situation. I will honor your conditions of mercy, but said mercy shouldn't come from any pretense of me being better than this.


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#25 kirant

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 10:46 PM

Commentary in bold. 

 

It's not anything that should change your judgment of the situation, but the two relevant posts are:

1: Explanation of why simply giving credit is only relevant in situations where the work is already labled free for use as long as credit is given, and the risk of ostracization should roro continue to do so (replied to by post #5)

2: Question that demands mentioning why he is unable to avoid sprite theft entirely when he says: "I can't fix this minor error I have now, so I just have remind everyone about it before they play lol." (never replied to, either before post #7 or post #9, but probably before #7 as that one confirms they are still using the stolen portrait.)

 

There is likely a third and fourth one which you might not have deemed important.  The third is the obvious "is this stolen" one between current posts 1 and 2.  Then there's one that appears to be missing between current posts 15 and 16 discussing exactly why the posts vanished in the first place.

 

At this point I'm being threatening afterwards(since post #11) because no reaction at this point only really told me one of two things at the time:

1: "lol it's this insecure idiot who thinks saying things on the internet matters, hey guys who want to help me so what do I do with this stolen portrait" (which I refrained from taking into assumption)

2: "Wait, that was a problem, right...better try to be unassuming/lighthearted about it so they don't notice, I still don't know what I'm supposed to do with it after all." (which I took to be the more favorable reason, even if the former is easily fairly likely)

 

I feel at this point that we need a good heaping of Hanlon's razor consideration.  That is, in its most commonly quoted form, to never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.  More simply, just don't jump to the conclusion of malicious intent if it's possible they were just stupid.  Most people in general do not act villainous but instead just miss things or are ignorant but willing to learn.  I sometimes just completely forget about posts that I want to respond to despite having a tab open for every post I want to quote (that and my fingers not typing what my brain is thinking are the biggest causes of edits for me).  Applied to this situation, it could simply be a matter of forgetting.  It could be wilfully ignoring the question.  It could be malicious choice.  I don't know.  Any of the above are possible and adequately explain the situation and applying that notion, which works surprisingly well I find, we decide that it's better to not jump to a malicious conclusion when human error answers it just as well.

 

[...]


 

Those are only relevant in situations where I want to avoid someone in particular for their behavior and interests(and only one person on it ever shows up anyway.) I don't really care about roro, I'm only concerned with the appearance of a sprite thief and potential support given to him by other members.

 

And you can let the other users deal with it as they want.  All that needs to be said is "Hey guys.  Please note that these may not be his own sprites".  Or a PM to anybody who offers aid to let them know of the full situation of their actions.  Simply put, you do not need to act as an arbitrator of our actions nor a "bad guy".  If there's a problem and you think it's morally wrong, you can recommend to others to not help because it's not original material but we're all mature enough to come to our own conclusions.  Contact the moderators will act in cases where you think it is a problem for the forums as a whole.  We'll deal with it in that case.


Though I don't think there's any need to do this with you, kirant, I'll still say that right now, I have no intention of dodging responsibility myself in our current situation. I will honor your conditions of mercy, but said mercy shouldn't come from any pretense of me being better than this.

 

I had no intent of applying mercy either.  My general rule of thumb is that I give a warning shot to let each user know exactly what may or may not constitute action; I find it unfair to users if they don't know where the line is as different sites have different rules and different subjective "rights" and "wrongs".  After that, you've got a basis by which to know when I'll act. 

Regardless, I'm done speaking about it here.  Further questions can certainly come in via PM and I'll discuss the matter there.  But for the sake of the topic creator (should he come back) and for our basis of topics being about what they're supposed to be about, It's derailing the entire thread and would suggest we move further discussion elsewhere. 


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#26 Fire Blazer

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 05:12 AM

Sorry I didn't see this, been super busy and sick and haven't even been viewing threads, forget posting

 

In short, please be nice and empathetic to new members even if they're doing something wrong. It has never been like FES to do anything to not welcome new members. It's very difficult to show patience to people who lack things we consider common sense like crediting people for work and understanding that just because you credit someone for their work, it does not mean you can use it as you like, but in this case, please take a step back and/or calm down before posting, or don't post at all.

 

It's all over now and I appreciate Kirant stepping in (I won't bother reading everything or going into any more details), but I don't want FES to ever be thought of as an unwelcoming place, for whatever reason. After all, we prided ourselves in being open, welcome, and understanding for so many years, and I like to think that's one of the few reasons we managed to stay alive for as long as we did, when so many other Fire Emblem forums died off.


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