19 replies to this topic

[Falaflame]

I could've posted this in Video Games, but I'd much rather have the thread be devoid of spam, plus this could actually spark a potential debate anyway.


If you know a lot about me, which most of you don't, you know I can't STAND characters who whine too god damn much or who don't show any shred of emotion at all when the situation calls for it.

Yep, emo characters (like Squall from FFVIII for example) and emotionless characters (like Cloud from later FFVII rehashes)

But what baffles me most is, there's usually a trend of MAIN characters having these type of traits. The type of character THE GAME REVOLVES AROUND. I really, absolutely hope the game developers aren't telling us being emo or being emotionally invisible is the cool thing to be, because if that's the case, then we're looking at a sad future.

So when exactly did this whole thing start? I'd love to say Final Fantasy VII, but I really doubt it. It has to be an earlier game, because FFVII was when it started being popular on all scales.

And also, what are your thoughts about the whole trend? Is it cool? Is it just sad? And why do you think so?

[arimibn]

The only "Emo" main characters I know of are Cloud and Squall. There are others?

[Solace]

To me there's a vast difference between the "emotional" and "emotionless" characters, which are similar to the dynamic and static personalities.
Whenever I make a character, persay, for roleplays and / or my book(s), I try to aim for some sort of balance in positive and negative qualities. I find that one with a static personality will generally have little to none character development and induce a grand amount of boredom to read through, while dynamic characters are usually the complete opposite with a personality that changes as the plot progresses.

Most characters from Final Fantasy (as well as many other series, not just singling Square Enix out) could be called static; usually because the main objective of the game is revolved around the classical Good vs. Evil, with the main character usually being the leader of the Good who has the generic "brave, heroic, undeniably handsome and charismatic, honorable, epic swordsman, and not only, LOYAL!" traits. And then, we have the infamous villian who wishes to rule / destroy the entire setting, naturally greedy and merciless. Did I mention that they're also part demon and / or are influenced greatly by darkness / dark powers?
Whenever I see these in a main character within a game, most of them tend to never stray once away from this lattice, and it bores me to death.

I wouldn't say that this stereotype was necessarily started / popularized by video game series, but it definitely is overused in today's age.

[arimibn]

This topic REALLY should be in video games. Lol

While I do think it's a little bit...strange for the main character to have these traits, I don't really see it as them trying to tell people to act like that. The main character is just who the story revolves around.

Now for something else I'd like to say. The reason most video game heroes have that generic personality is because that type of personality is easy to follow. If I'm gonna join you, you need to be a leader. And that personality type says leader pretty well.

As for Squall and Cloud. Keep in mind, while they do have people who join them, they are moreso the "loner" characters, and would usually fight alone anyway. Which is why I don't have a problem with them being the main characters. How many people in their games act the way do? Do they have reason to act that way? I honestly believe that Cloud has reason to act depressed. His best friend, Zack, was KILLED protecting HIM. He feels bad about that. And that's one of the main reasons he's always depressed. Then Cloud fails to protect Zack's girlfriend, who is also his friend, from Sephiroth. And Cloud is the one who kills her. Also Sephiroth was a role model to him. The fact that Sephiroth turned evil was also a heavy blow to him. But at the end of it all, he did get over it. So I don't really have a problem with Cloud. As far as Squall, all I know of his personality is what I've seen of him in Dissidia. To me, Squall is actually pretty depressing. Whether or not he has reason to be that way, I don't know. But hey, I still like the guy as a character.

Is the trend of "Emo" main characters cool? Well, in my opinion it doesn't really matter to me. There are games with violent murderers as the protagonists. And those games are well received, so I don't really think it matters.

[Falaflame]

Well maybe my sense of "main character" may be lucid. I don't know. But IMO, a good protagonist has got to be someone where a little kid would play the game, and be like "Wow! I want to be like that guy when I grow up!" Do you honestly want your kid to be like Cloud or Squall when they're older? I know that's probably not an accurate way to measure a main character, but it's just what I think. Then again I wasnt the biggest fan of the game either character was from... I'm more a SNES kid.

In Fire Emblem's terms, say what you want about how pansy you think Eliwood is, but I think he's the best character in the series that best fits this script. Okay, maybe Marth might or might not be competition because I haven't played Shadow Dragon yet. But honestly, Eliwood has all the makings of a good main character. Maybe all the newer games should follow his lead.

[Ristau]

So I'm confused. Is this supposed to be about video games in general, or just Final Fantasy (which I've never played)?

[Falaflame]

QUOTE (Ryokutheman @ Dec 1 2012, 06:43 PM)

So I'm confused. Is this supposed to be about video games in general, or just Final Fantasy (which I've never played)?

In general. I'm using Final Fantasy as a valid example.

[kirant]

The emotionally charged characters and emotionless characters being popular is because of Japanese/North American culture (well, more generally: Eastern/Western. But those two are the standouts). Each area likes one of these types of characters and companies pile these character types down our throat because we like them.

In Japan, the common line of thinking is that emotions are something to repress publicly. (Male) Lead characters which display strong emotions often as a results are considered in a more positive light. In particular, this stands as the perception that they're deep and mysterious. Contrary, in much of western society, this type of character is given much less thought and are considered "wimps" or, as the opening post indicates, "emos". Gundam SEED's Kira Yamato is a classic example of this, where he's considered one of the most popular Gundam protagonists ever. In North America, he's considered weak and have a general strong dislike of him. In the opposite direction, the emotionally tough (again, male) characters in the West are treated as badasses, while they're less interesting to the far Eastern fan bases. Of course, since most character who fit these archetypes and are leads are male, this is why it feels like they take up the helm so often.

A common line of reasoning by people I've talked to on this is that the gender beliefs (such as manliness) are stronger in the west. This acts in contradiction though to the trend of female characters (the more feminine and submissive female characters are more popular in the east, while rebellious and proactive females characters are better received in the west), which leads me to thing it's more about how we take emotional situations. In western nations, I think there's a bit of a belief that it's a strength to take things on the nose, head on and not snow anything, whereas the is the expected norm in many eastern cultures (Japan is a major standout, but hardly the only).

Personally, either are acceptable characters and I'm not bothered by the trope. The thing I want to see is what causes or makes it happen. Few characters really feel like I know them enough that I can actually think of them as human and get pulled through their emotional turbulence. I want a character I could actually talk to (my mind is kind of insane in this regard: I have legitimately had conversations to myself, with the voice going through my mind being sometimes characters I've written, sometimes just another train of thought on the topic).

[Holy Kensai]

QUOTE (Falaflame @ Dec 1 2012, 07:32 AM)

emotionless characters (like Cloud from later FFVII rehashes)

I am so glad you said this. Simply because in the game Cloud was nowhere near emotionless or emo, however because of Kingdom Hearts and other games involving him everyone remembers him as an emo.

And about Squall/FF8, that is also the point FF went downhill. Because the games stopped focusing on the story and characters, and moreso on a lovestory.

And other games followed this trend, as the marketing departments don't like when their products only target one audience (young male, young female, old male, old female). With a love story it targets young males and young females.

Building on to that, the males who tend to focus on the love stories are also the type of people who tend to victimize themselves, thus the emo over-sensitive male main character. And the marketing departments think that this is what females like also.

And as such that is why male characters are mostly emo now.

[Fire Blazer]

I don't think it's a very nice trend... variety is nice... if done right, a little emo-ism can be okay, but as it is now, it's starting to become a cliche

also I think that main characters often start off as inconfident etc. now adays and as a result seem emo, or if something happens to break their confidence, they become emo until some other character's like "GET OVER IT" and then they do :|

not sure how much sense that made but oh well

[Mercurius]

QUOTE (Holy Kensai @ Dec 1 2012, 05:43 PM)

the marketing departments don't like when their products only target one audience (young male, young female, old male, old female)

...Say what?

I mean sure, a lot of works try to appeal to both genders (age in this case usually isn't considered much though, unless by "old" you mean "compared to a child or teenager, an adult") but almost everything i've played or watched is aimed at or associated with a specific gender, and the merchandise has a tendency to often repel the gender it wasn't designed for.

[Holy Kensai]

QUOTE (Hatless @ Dec 4 2012, 06:51 PM)

QUOTE (Holy Kensai @ Dec 1 2012, 05:43 PM) the marketing departments don't like when their products only target one audience (young male, young female, old male, old female) ...Say what? I mean sure, a lot of works try to appeal to both genders (age in this case usually isn't considered much though, unless by "old" you mean "compared to a child or teenager, an adult") but almost everything i've played or watched is aimed at or associated with a specific gender, and the merchandise has a tendency to often repel the gender it wasn't designed for.

This is basic marketing. Young means under 30. This is the way movies, tv shows, and video games work according to the producers (aka the money).

[Falaflame]

QUOTE (Holy Kensai @ Dec 4 2012, 09:49 PM)

QUOTE (Hatless @ Dec 4 2012, 06:51 PM) QUOTE (Holy Kensai @ Dec 1 2012, 05:43 PM) the marketing departments don't like when their products only target one audience (young male, young female, old male, old female) ...Say what? I mean sure, a lot of works try to appeal to both genders (age in this case usually isn't considered much though, unless by "old" you mean "compared to a child or teenager, an adult") but almost everything i've played or watched is aimed at or associated with a specific gender, and the merchandise has a tendency to often repel the gender it wasn't designed for. This is basic marketing. Young means under 30. This is the way movies, tv shows, and video games work according to the producers (aka the money).

Not just in marketing. It's in the real world too.

But if there's a way to appeal to both genders, and young and old, wouldn't there be a better way than what they're doing now?

[Holy Kensai]

Not really. Mass amounts of people are still buying their product so they see no reason to change.

Especially in RPGs which are almost exclusively done well in Japanese culture (sorry, but most Western RPGs are shit). The thing about Japanese culture is that right now the entire focus is on non-risk behaviours. Japanese culture is very against risk.

Realistically the only way to change it would be for gamers to stop buying shit games and forcing the gaming industry to shape up. But we've been saying that for years and console gamers just make it worse and worse.

[Nils]

Emotionless characters, in my humble opinion, are mostly a Japanese RPG thing.
Sure, other RPGs have emotionless chars too but they are predominantly found in Japanese games.
Then again, I agree with Kensai in saying that 99% of Western RPGs suck xD

[Fire Blazer]

Boney, if you're not adding anything to the topic, please don't post. Thank you. =)

[AbsolutelyTotalSilence]

Well, I know that Link in the Zelda series was intentionally made a silent, basically emotionless character at first so the player could relate to him better, project their own feelings onto the character, that kind of thing.

I haven't played FFVII, but Cloud in Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts was fairly annoying.

QUOTE

Emotionless characters, in my humble opinion, are mostly a Japanese RPG thing.

Western-published space-themed FPS marine dudes much?

[arimibn]

Wait. There are American RPG's? Say what? I honestly don't think I've EVER played a non-japanese RPG and thoroughly enjoyed it. XD To be honest, I don't think I've purchased any non-japanese franchises in the past three years.

I think the only non-japanese video game series that I even play is Mario. Lol And maybe Sonic. (Though I think he's Japanese too.)

[Cero]

QUOTE (arimibn @ Dec 10 2012, 04:31 PM)

I think the only non-japanese video game series that I even play is Mario. Lol And maybe Sonic. (Though I think he's Japanese too.)

Mario and Sonic are both owned by Japanese video game companies.

[AbsolutelyTotalSilence]

And technically, the Mario&Luigi games are JRPGs. Wait...You're right, I can't think of any non-japanese RPGs that I actually play. (Or any non-japanese games in general, besides Tetris which is Russian.)