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FE:7 Debeit: Seraphinox Vs Bloodfalcon22


14 replies to this topic

#1 Seraphinox

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:26 AM

It's me defending Fiora and Him defending Raven This is a debate for Hector Mode.
Tino said he would be the judge.

Note: We are both amateurs so sorry if this is bad. (Hey i can only get better right?)

Note: .5 or lower is rounded down, .6 or up is rounded up

Ah Fiora, one of the three Pegasus sisters who uses extensive hair dye. (just like her sisters)
Fiora joins in Ch: 19 – the dread isle which considering is around the middle of the game, not very early but not too late to make unusable. She comes in at lv.7 which is a reasonable level considering where you are in the game. She has a C in lances when she joins. High growths in most stats except for a crap defence growth and a mediocre strength.

The only other flier you have at this point is Florina who is needed to recruit Fiora in the first place. Since Florina went through Lyn’s mode I’d say she would come out at lv. 6-7 and then she also comes three chapters earlier then Fiora (No place in CH: 17 due to archers) so by the time we recruit Fiora Florina would be about lv: 10. with the right side of the pirate ship chapter being a good exp gain.

Stats:
Fiora: Lv.7
HP-21 Str-8 Skl-11 Spd-13 Lck-6 def-7 Res-6

Florina: Lv.10
HP-22.4 Str-8.6 Skl-11.5 Spd-13.9 Lck-11.5 Def-5.3 Res-7.1

Florina has a very slight advantage on her sister with
1 HP, 1 Str, 1, spd, 5 luck, and 1 resistance

Fiora comes in at a bad chapter. She arrives a few turns in when most of the enemies are dead which doesn’t leave much room for exp get the chapter she arrives in is not very good with their being quite a few Pirates and Nomads around the place. Sure she can kill cavaliers but the steel lance she carries weighs her down. My guess is she won’t gain a level.

The next chapter Ie. 19x is a god-send as it is extremely easy to train her here, She can kill the Pegasus over the hill with ease and her large resistance makes her a prime Mage killer, but since the mages are incapacitated there should be no worries. Florina would also benefit from this chapter which is a problem.

Fiora would come out of that chapter at a max of three levels higher which would put her at the same as florina.

Fast forward now to when we get the first Elysian whip which is CH: 21. Neither of the two would be ready to promote by then. That usually happens around CH: 24/25

Next chapter we receive another flier in the form of Heath, the competition hots up for who gets the first promotion item. Heath being underleveled is not a favourable but…

CH:22
Fiora: Lv.14
HP-25.9 Str-10.4 Skl-15.2 Spd-16.5 Def- 7.4 res-10.5 Luck-8.1

Florina: Lv.16
HP- 26.0 Str- 11.0 Skl-14.5 Spd-17.2 Def-6.2 Res-9.2 Luck14.5

Heath Lv.7
HP-28 Str-11 Skl-8 Spd-7 Def-10 Res-1 Luck-7


Florina: Lv.16 we put her here because she would obviously have a level lead due to coming earlier.
Heath has no claim whatsoever sure he is on par in strength and has higher HP but the speed gap is too high, Fiora and Florina would double him.
Once again the two sisters are practically on par except for Florina’s great Luck lead

Fiora has: +1 Skl, +1 Def and +1 Res
Florina has: +1 Str, +1 Spd, +6 Luck

There is still no clear winner.

Fast forward to chapter 24 where they would both presumabely be ready to promote
Fiora: 20/0
HP-30.1 Str-12.5 Skl-18.6 Spd-19.0 Def-8.6 Res-13.5 Lck-9.9

Florina: 20/0
HP-28.4 Str-12.6 Skl-16.5 Spd-18.8 Def-6.8 Res-10.6 Lck-16.5

Things have changed again Fiora now wins in HP, Skill, Speed, Defence and Resistance while florina only has her Luck lead which is still +6
Fiora leads by:
2 Hp
3 skill
2 defence
3 resistance

While only losing out in luck, we know who the prime candidate is.

In ch: 25 though we receive another Elysian whip for Florina so that means at most Fiora would be 20/2 by this chapter, also we get the introduction of Farina, the third sister of our trio. Farina comes in at level 12, not only is she underleveled and comes late in the game but she also costs 20,000 gold to use. Plus a promotion item that’s 30,000 for one character.

Fiora: 20/2
HP-35.8 Str-14.9 Skl-19.2 Spd-19.5 Def-10.8 Res-16.0 Lck-10.2

Florina- 20/1
HP-33.4 Str-14.6 Skl-16.5 Spd-18.8 Def-8.8 Res-12.6 Lck16.5

Farina: 12/--
HP-24 Str-10 Skl-13 Spd-14 Def-10 Res-12 Lck-10

Fiora is still in the lead with gains of
+2 Hp
+3 Skl
+2 Def
+3 Res

Florina still only has the +6 luck lead.
Farina is being crushed by her sisters and the only notable thing is that she has the same defence as Florina and the same luck as Fiora

This shows that Fiora is able to take a hit much better then Florina can due to better HP,Def, and Res. And when supports are factored in (will be done later). The only thing the +6 luck gives her is 6 extra evasion.

Most units will end up at 20/10 but I will say 20/12 due to promoting 7 chapters before the end. Farina will be 20/5 due to late join. (last one I promise)
Fiora: 20/12
Hp-42.8 Str-18.6 Skl-24.2 Spd-24.5 Def-12.8 Res-21.0 Luck13.2

Florina: 20/12
HP-40.0 Str-18.9 Skl-21.8 Spd-24.9 Def-10.5 Res-16.5 Luck-22.0

Farina: 20/5
Hp-38.0 Str-18.0 Skl-17.8 Spd-19.4 Def-15.0 Res-17.6 Luck15.4

Fiora has now got a
+3 Hp on Florina and +5 on farina
+0 Str on Florina and +1 on farina
+2 Skl on Florina and +7 on farina
-1 Spd on Florina and +4 on Farina
+3 Def on florina and -3 on farina
+5 Res on Florina and +3 on farina
-9 Luck on Florina and -2 on farina

We can see that fiora wins in most situations except for Luck. And in a comparison without Lyn mode, Florina would be a few levels lower.

Now for Supports Fiora has these options
: Florina (L) - 12 +20 (32) +20(52)
: Farina (A) - 17 +27 (44) +27(71)
: Kent (A) - 27 +27 (54) +27(81)
: Pent (I) - 36 +40 (76) --
: Sain (W) - 41 +40 (81) +40(121)
: Eliwood (A) - 41 +40 (81) +40(121)
: Geitz (T) - 81 +80(161) +80(241)

Geitz is ruled out because it takes so long.
Farina comes quite late and probably won’t be used, even though Anima is nice.
Pent is an option but he doesn’t give the best bonuses.
If you used Fiora you probably wouldn’t use Florina but if you did her support adds some good bonuses. Her other three options are Eliwood, kent and Sain. Kent and Eliwood are good choices due to both having a great affinity so they are first choices, also the support grows much faster then Sain’s.
Since Kent wants Sains support if Sain is played Fiora will have to go with Eliwood.

Ranks:
Combat: Fiora immediately helps with the Combat rank as she can double most enemies straight away due to high speed. And if not she can weaken them considerably with a heavier weapon and give a weaker unit the kill.

Exp: Fiora comes in at Lv.7 so she would be a little bit lower then some characters but mostly on par and can catch up quickly. She gains the same amount of exp as everyone else so she helps in that regard

Survival: Of course with all fliers there is the problem with Bows. But due to her high movement she can run away from an imposing threat if needed, and her defence is high enough so that she doesn’t get OHKO’d from an archer (barely) Also her evasion is quite good and so would mostly dodge these attacks. She has brilliant resistance so magic users are not a problem.

Funds: She costs 20,000 less then her sister and comes in 10 chapters earlier. She can use iron weapons with ease due to her speed being so high, and while not being as cheap as axes, they are not very expensive.

Tactics: Fiora helps the tactics rating because she has such high movement so she won’t be left behind. Also unlike Paladins she does not get caught up in the terrain and can use her full movement the whole time. Only problem is she doesn’t get terrain bonuses. She can double most anything which helps clear the chapter quicker. She is better then slower units, Lowen Oswin etc.


Fiora is a pretty powerful unit and outclasses her sisters in most stats. She only costs 10,000 to use (elysian whip) and does her job well, She has great mobility and utility with being able to fly, has high skill so will always hit and most times will dodge. Luck hurts her a small bit but over average defence (for a Pegasus) and resistance help in that factor.

Thanks for reading.
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#2 Blood Falcon

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 10:41 PM

Ok first I'll start with joining time.

Joining time: Raven comes at a bit of a low level but if I remember correctly you get an armorslayer that chapter. Give it to Raven and he'll get two levels out of all the knights up north. Chapter 17X there's a bunch of axe users so that'll make Raven easy to level up due to weapon triangle, about two levels. Chapter 19, the one where Fiora joins, there's about a total of 12 pirate reinforcements, equaling to about 3 levels, plus if you have a long sword than you can have him kill Uhai, making it 1 more level. And it'll be hard to raise Fiora that chapter because of all the axe users. So by the end of the chapter Raven is level 15, while poor Fiora is level 10, assuming you babied her. Chapter 20 is just full of cavaliers, making it extremely easy to raise Raven if he has a longsword. Then you could easily have him kill Darin easily if he has an armorslayer. So hopefully he'll be about level 16 or 17, where if you babied Fiora she would be about level 12. The next chapter, new resolve, there's lots of brigands, making it easy to raise Raven. Hopefully by the end of the chapter he'll be nearing promotion. And Fiora is sadly not even near her's.

Alternatives:
Florina has a much better joining time, 13 more chapters than Fiora. Just raise her 1 level a chapter that she's in and she's already 6 levels higher that Fiora. Do you really want to baby Fiora when there's a nice, shiny, raised Florina? I don't think so. Raven's alternative is Harken, but let's compare their stats 20/20:
Raven:
Hp: 57.9
Str: 25
Skl: 26.6
Spd: 26
Lck: 13.9
Def: 15.5
Res: 8.1

Harken:
Hp: 47.6
Str: 25
Skl: 23.6
Spd: 21.8
Lck: 14.4
Def: 18.6
Res: 13

Hp: Raven +10.3
Str: +0
Skl: Raven +2.4
spd: Raven +4.2
lck: Harken +.5
Def: Harken +3.1
Res: Harken +4.9

Raven's ten more hp makes up for his lower defense. Not only that, but he has more speed to to prevent attacks. Harken's mere higher luck doesn't make a difference. Harken may have 5 more resistence, but Ravens hp gain equals two magical attacks. Harken maxes out strength at level 20 when Raven maxes it outr at level 17.

Comparing Raven and Fiora's stats 20/20:
Raven:
Hp: 57.9
Str: 25
Skl: 26.6
Spd: 26
Lck: 13.9
Def: 15.5
Res: 8.1

Fiora:
Hp: 48.4
Str: 21.2
Skl: 25
Spd: 28
lck: 15.6
Def: 14.4
Res: 25

Raven has a strong lead of 9.5 in hp, also not only that but also a 1.1 lead in defense. Fiora may have a lead in speed but Raven will still be doubling, and landing stronger blows, with a 3.8 lead in strength. Raven even has 1.6 more skill. The only stat that Fiora has a strong lead in is resistence, which is an amnazing lead of 16.9. But magic usedrs won't be hitting Raven anyways with only a 10% chance of hitting, then Rasven would kill them in one hit.

Ranks:
Combat:
Raven will be one hitting and dodging everyone, making him near impossible to kill.

Exp:
Raven will be much easier to raise as he gets 3 more chapters than Fiora, one of them having an arena. By the time he's promoted he'll be even easier to raise.

Survival:
Raven will have a bit of a hard time surviving at first but once when he's promoted enemies will get lucky to pass 20% chance of hitting. So not much to say here.

Funds:
He won't cost a lot to use, he'll kill just about anyone with a steel or iron weapon, doesn't matter which. He's that good.

Tactics:
Raven may have a hard time keeping up compared to Fiora, but he is good for clearing the way when all the enemies are stupid enough to attack him, clearing the way for everyone.

Raven is a beastly unit to have. By the times he's promoted he'll be killing generals in 3 hits, and dodging everyone's attacks, including even Limstella's. You don't have to baby him one tiny bit, unlike Fiora. He's a very nice unit to have around.

Thank you for reading.
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Bloodfalcon22-pokemanzz cnt dye
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Rujio -- ANYTHING

QUOTE
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bblues -- I don't think so.
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QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm)
Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol.

#3 Seraphinox

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 10:44 PM

You forgot to post what level the characters are when posting the sats, just thought I'd point it out.

And when do you want the rebuttal to be done? today or tomorrow?
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#4 Blood Falcon

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ June 06, 2009 05:44 pm)
You forgot to post what level the characters are when posting the sats, just thought I'd point it out.

And when do you want the rebuttal to be done? today or tomorrow?

20/20, My terrible bad.

I would prefer tommorow.
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I won't remove this until I have gotten an overkill extermination in Halo MLG.-started August 13, 2010, 8-13-2010 Got it on December 18, 2010! WOOT!
I won't remove this until I get a killtacular in Halo MLG- Started December 29, 2010.
QUOTE
Bloodfalcon22-pokemanzz cnt dye
FELover3- If I beat the shit out of them they do

QUOTE
Rujio -- Cows are more important than anything.
Rujio -- ANYTHING

QUOTE
Blood Falcon -- Hey bblues, are you able to ban the GoogleBot?
bblues -- I don't think so.
Blood Falcon -- Damn, lol.
bblues -- He's above the law : P

QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm)
Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol.

#5 Seraphinox

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 07:03 PM

My rebuttal

QUOTE
Joining time: Raven comes at a bit of a low level but if I remember correctly you get an armorslayer that chapter. Give it to Raven and he'll get two levels out of all the knights up north. Chapter 17X there's a bunch of axe users so that'll make Raven easy to level up due to weapon triangle, about two levels. Chapter 19, the one where Fiora joins, there's about a total of 12 pirate reinforcements, equaling to about 3 levels, plus if you have a long sword than you can have him kill Uhai, making it 1 more level. And it'll be hard to raise Fiora that chapter because of all the axe users. So by the end of the chapter Raven is level 15, while poor Fiora is level 10, assuming you babied her. Chapter 20 is just full of cavaliers, making it extremely easy to raise Raven if he has a longsword. Then you could easily have him kill Darin easily if he has an armorslayer. So hopefully he'll be about level 16 or 17, where if you babied Fiora she would be about level 12. The next chapter, new resolve, there's lots of brigands, making it easy to raise Raven. Hopefully by the end of the chapter he'll be nearing promotion. And Fiora is sadly not even near her's


The chapter you get the armorslayer in is Ch: 20 the dragons Gate, not ch: 17. In Ch: 17x there are other characters who also need the experience (Eliwood & Lyn) so Raven would be fighting for the exp. He would come out at about Lv.7 - 8 if you played favouritism because there are many other enemis in that chapter who could deal a lot of damage to him since he is low leveled.

In CH:19 there is only 6 pirate reinforcements, and if you wanted him to kill the boss it would take five turns to get there (Min) which would destroy your tactics rating. Also the Lords do much better due to their specific weapons at killing Uhai. Raven would be about lv. 10-11 by this point.

Fiora has a better chance of killing the cavaliers with lances because she does not have weapon triangle disadvantage.
New resolve also has many monks and wyvern riders so with ravens poor resistance he may be badly hurt in that chapter.


QUOTE
Hp: Raven +10.3
Str: +0
Skl: Raven +2.4
spd: Raven +4.2
lck: Harken +.5
Def: Harken +3.1
Res: Harken +4.9

Raven's ten more hp makes up for his lower defense. Not only that, but he has more speed to to prevent attacks. Harken's mere higher luck doesn't make a difference. Harken may have 5 more resistence, but Ravens hp gain equals two magical attacks. Harken maxes out strength at level 20 when Raven maxes it outr at level 17.


Most characters don't reach 20/20 by endgame unless you play the favouratism card. The one thing you forgot is that while yes Raven does have those stat advantages, Harken has a higher Constitution (11 > 9) which means he can use Axes without losing speed. This means he has a greater WTA advantage. Also you are forgetting Harken comes with a Brave Sword which is immediately useful.

QUOTE
Comparing Raven and Fiora's stats 20/20:
Raven has a strong lead of 9.5 in hp, also not only that but also a 1.1 lead in defense. Fiora may have a lead in speed but Raven will still be doubling, and landing stronger blows, with a 3.8 lead in strength. Raven even has 1.6 more skill. The only stat that Fiora has a strong lead in is resistence, which is an amnazing lead of 16.9. But magic usedrs won't be hitting Raven anyways with only a 10% chance of hitting, then Rasven would kill them in one hit.


Fiora still has her high movement to take advantage of and can reach the enemies faster then Raven can so by the time he gets there they are all dead from being countered.
Also Fiora has better support options then Raven because Ravens are

Wil
Rebecca
Bartre
Priscilla
Lucius

Wil/Rebecca fail for being archers and probably won't be used, Bartre is extremely slow @ 81/161/241. That leaves him with two supports. Priscilla has better options then raven and wants them. So that leaves him with just Lucius.


QUOTE
Ranks:
Combat:
Raven will be one hitting and dodging everyone, making him near impossible to kill.

Exp:
Raven will be much easier to raise as he gets 3 more chapters than Fiora, one of them having an arena. By the time he's promoted he'll be even easier to raise.

Survival:
Raven will have a bit of a hard time surviving at first but once when he's promoted enemies will get lucky to pass 20% chance of hitting. So not much to say here.

Funds:
He won't cost a lot to use, he'll kill just about anyone with a steel or iron weapon, doesn't matter which. He's that good.

Tactics:
Raven may have a hard time keeping up compared to Fiora, but he is good for clearing the way when all the enemies are stupid enough to attack him, clearing the way for everyone.

Raven is a beastly unit to have. By the times he's promoted he'll be killing generals in 3 hits, and dodging everyone's attacks, including even Limstella's. You don't have to baby him one tiny bit, unlike Fiora. He's a very nice unit to have around.


Combat: I highly doubt he would be one hitting anyone, even late game all he is one hitting is mages. Swords are the weakest type of weapon, and on promotion he gets slowed down by axes.

Exp: The chapter you get Raven in he won't be used. The next chapter he may get one level. and o Pirate Ship Oswin/Lucius/Florina steal the show completely so it would be difficult to get him exp unless you gave him the end kills

Survival: Ravens low luck does not help his survival chances. There are quite a few Wyverns/Paladins later on compared to a comparatively low supply of archers

Funds: He costs the same as Fiora, 10,000 to promote and his weapons are the most expensive to buy so he costs more then Fiora

Tactics: Raven would get left behind fioras high movement and ability to skip terrain. His low resistance does not help when fighting all the magic user bosses.



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#6 Seraphinox

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Posted 12 June 2009 - 06:29 PM

Bump'd to raise it to the top of the list, It's been five days Falcon, where's your rebuttal?
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#7 Seraphinox

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 07:07 PM

Its been over a week, you still have to post your rebuttal. You know, find faults in my opener. Whats going on?
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#8 Blood Falcon

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 08:58 PM

QUOTE
The chapter you get the armorslayer in is Ch: 20 the dragons Gate, not ch: 17. In Ch: 17x there are other characters who also need the experience (Eliwood & Lyn) so Raven would be fighting for the exp. He would come out at about Lv.7 - 8 if you played favouritism because there are many other enemis in that chapter who could deal a lot of damage to him since he is low leveled.

In CH:19 there is only 6 pirate reinforcements, and if you wanted him to kill the boss it would take five turns to get there (Min) which would destroy your tactics rating. Also the Lords do much better due to their specific weapons at killing Uhai. Raven would be about lv. 10-11 by this point.

Fiora has a better chance of killing the cavaliers with lances because she does not have weapon triangle disadvantage.
New resolve also has many monks and wyvern riders so with ravens poor resistance he may be badly hurt in that chapter.


Ok, There's infinite amount of Knight reinforcement(I think it's infinite) and Darin to give Ravens lots and lot of EXP. And Lyn has about 15 whole chapters to be raised atleast 13 and Eliwood could have got lots of EXP earlier from all the cavaliers and Cameron. Raven can get plenty high as I've showed before. On chapter 19 You give him a longsword, and have one of trhe lords weaklen Uhai and you'll be able t kill Uhai with ease. Plus, Fiora would have even a harder time killing Uhai. As for chapter 20 Raven will be killing the cavaliers in two hits because of his long sword.

QUOTE
Most characters don't reach 20/20 by endgame unless you play the favouratism card. The one thing you forgot is that while yes Raven does have those stat advantages, Harken has a higher Constitution (11 > 9) which means he can use Axes without losing speed. This means he has a greater WTA advantage. Also you are forgetting Harken comes with a Brave Sword which is immediately useful.


Most characters get to near level 18 before endgame, which is pretty much level 20. Why would you use axes on Raven anyways? It ruins the hit, he loses speed due to weight, the only plus is the higher damadge done, but he'll be killing everyone in one battle anyways. Raven will hopefully have more speed than Harken by now. So Ravenm will be getting more 4 hits more often.

QUOTE
Fiora still has her high movement to take advantage of and can reach the enemies faster then Raven can so by the time he gets there they are all dead from being countered.
Also Fiora has better support options then Raven because Ravens are

Wil
Rebecca
Bartre
Priscilla
Lucius

Wil/Rebecca fail for being archers and probably won't be used, Bartre is extremely slow @ 81/161/241. That leaves him with two supports. Priscilla has better options then raven and wants them. So that leaves him with just Lucius.

Unless you are trying to do a speed playthrough movement doesn't really matter.

For the support thing the snipers just need to be raised a little and they are great. Priscilla and Raven still are good.

QUOTE
Combat: I highly doubt he would be one hitting anyone, even late game all he is one hitting is mages. Swords are the weakest type of weapon, and on promotion he gets slowed down by axes.

Exp: The chapter you get Raven in he won't be used. The next chapter he may get one level. and o Pirate Ship Oswin/Lucius/Florina steal the show completely so it would be difficult to get him exp unless you gave him the end kills

Survival: Ravens low luck does not help his survival chances. There are quite a few Wyverns/Paladins later on compared to a comparatively low supply of archers

Funds: He costs the same as Fiora, 10,000 to promote and his weapons are the most expensive to buy so he costs more then Fiora

Tactics: Raven would get left behind fioras high movement and ability to skip terrain. His low resistance does not help when fighting all the magic user bosses.


Combat: Raven will be one battling everyone due to his real high strength, and high speed, give him a brave sword if you don't think so.

EXP: It is possible to raise Raven on the chapter you get him. The next chapter you have him kill the pirates at the north.

Survival: Raven will be dodging absolutely everything once when he's promoted, making him impossible to kill unless if you get RNG screwed.

Funds: Do you want to not use the usefull sword weapons you get?

Tactics: Unless if you raise a lot of mounted units then Raven's movement does not matter. As for the magic using bosses, they'll have a hard time hitting him, he'll be doubling, landing strong blows, and even if he gets hit his HP makes up for it.
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Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol.

#9 Seraphinox

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 06:51 PM

Okay I don't care if this doesn't count, I'm countering that.

Coming soon

QUOTE
Ok, There's infinite amount of Knight reinforcement(I think it's infinite) and Darin to give Ravens lots and lot of EXP. And Lyn has about 15 whole chapters to be raised atleast 13 and Eliwood could have got lots of EXP earlier from all the cavaliers and Cameron. Raven can get plenty high as I've showed before. On chapter 19 You give him a longsword, and have one of trhe lords weaklen Uhai and you'll be able t kill Uhai with ease. Plus, Fiora would have even a harder time killing Uhai. As for chapter 20 Raven will be killing the cavaliers in two hits because of his long sword.


Please tell me, which chapter has infinite knight reinforcements? CH:17 has 0 so does 17x, Pirate ship has no knights, There are 7 in chapter 19x and 5 in 19xx. Even then he has complete WTD against them and their lances.
Lyn may not need it but Eliwood might, you may have neglected to train him and then if you want the superior Geitz you have to train them up.

Letting Raven kill the boss is favouratism, and how does Fiora have trouble? She uses Lances which best Uhai's swords AND bows can't attack at close range.

QUOTE
Most characters get to near level 18 before endgame, which is pretty much level 20. Why would you use axes on Raven anyways? It ruins the hit, he loses speed due to weight, the only plus is the higher damadge done, but he'll be killing everyone in one battle anyways. Raven will hopefully have more speed than Harken by now. So Ravenm will be getting more 4 hits more often.

Unless you arena abuse only about 2 of your characters are getting past 20/12 and that's by playing the favouratism card. Why not use axes, It gives him a bit more flexibility and can attack from range. The only thing he'll be killing in one round is unpromoted units, lets see him go up against a general with a sword?

Harken can be more useful as he protects the funds rank by not using a promotion item, that means Raven is stuck with Iron weapons while Harken can get more expensive ones.

QUOTE
Unless you are trying to do a speed playthrough movement doesn't really matter.

For the support thing the snipers just need to be raised a little and they are great. Priscilla and Raven still are good.

What about protecting characters, getting to villages on time, keeping up with the group. of course movement is important. While archers are my favorite class, they are fail as they can't counter attack. High chance you won't be using them as they are locked to bows.

You need to elaborate more...

QUOTE
Combat: Raven will be one battling everyone due to his real high strength, and high speed, give him a brave sword if you don't think so.

EXP: It is possible to raise Raven on the chapter you get him. The next chapter you have him kill the pirates at the north.

Survival: Raven will be dodging absolutely everything once when he's promoted, making him impossible to kill unless if you get RNG screwed.

Funds: Do you want to not use the usefull sword weapons you get?

Tactics: Unless if you raise a lot of mounted units then Raven's movement does not matter. As for the magic using bosses, they'll have a hard time hitting him, he'll be doubling, landing strong blows, and even if he gets hit his HP makes up for i


Why does Raven deserve the Brave sword? He may be killing things later on but early on he is quite a bit behind the rest of your team.
No it is not possible to raise him in the chapter you get him because he has to recruit Lucius which means atleast 7 turns are wasted getting to him and back, By that time your other units will have cleared the chapter. To get 17x you need to beat CH:16 in less then 15 turns.

His painfully low luck hurts his dodging skills before promotion and even after he still has a bit of trouble.

and for funds... What? There are other units in the group you know, not just raven...

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#10 Blood Falcon

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 07:24 PM

^Is that post going to count? If it is please tell me so I can make a rebuttle.
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I won't remove this until I have gotten an overkill extermination in Halo MLG.-started August 13, 2010, 8-13-2010 Got it on December 18, 2010! WOOT!
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QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm)
Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol.

#11 Seraphinox

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 09:19 PM

If you want, Tino hasn't judged yet so it doesn't matter.
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#12 Blood Falcon

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 09:23 PM

I'll do a rebuttle then. It's always best to have the last word.
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I won't remove this until I have gotten an overkill extermination in Halo MLG.-started August 13, 2010, 8-13-2010 Got it on December 18, 2010! WOOT!
I won't remove this until I get a killtacular in Halo MLG- Started December 29, 2010.
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FELover3- If I beat the shit out of them they do

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Rujio -- Cows are more important than anything.
Rujio -- ANYTHING

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Blood Falcon -- Hey bblues, are you able to ban the GoogleBot?
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Blood Falcon -- Damn, lol.
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QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm)
Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol.

#13 Tino

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 10:22 PM

Woops. Completely forgot about this. I'll judge after your counter.

#14 Blood Falcon

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE
Please tell me, which chapter has infinite knight reinforcements? CH:17 has 0 so does 17x, Pirate ship has no knights, There are 7 in chapter 19x and 5 in 19xx. Even then he has complete WTD against them and their lances.
Lyn may not need it but Eliwood might, you may have neglected to train him and then if you want the superior Geitz you have to train them up.

Letting Raven kill the boss is favouratism, and how does Fiora have trouble? She uses Lances which best Uhai's swords AND bows can't attack at close range.


Sorry my bad. When I played it seemed like the knights just would not stop coming. I know chapter 20 has 6 knights(turns 20,22,24), along with 6 mages( turn 19,21,23) So assuming Raven kills 3 knights and 3 mages that's atleast 1.8 levels. Eliwood gets has the ability to get quite a few levels in chapters 14( the one with Erik) and 17.

Letting Raven kill Uhai is not favouratism, Raven has a long sword that's affective against horseback. I believe Uhai moves in Hector mode, which can be an absolute killer for Fiora. Even if he doesn't move there's the scary killing edge.

QUOTE
Unless you arena abuse only about 2 of your characters are getting past 20/12 and that's by playing the favouratism card. Why not use axes, It gives him a bit more flexibility and can attack from range. The only thing he'll be killing in one round is unpromoted units, lets see him go up against a general with a sword?

Harken can be more useful as he protects the funds rank by not using a promotion item, that means Raven is stuck with Iron weapons while Harken can get more expensive ones.

I don't know about you but I raise about 8-10 characters in a playthrough so all of my guys gain more levels, and with more ease. Axes will kill Raven's speed. And you can attack from a distance with a light brand. Generals are the only thing he'll be having a hard time killing. And the general will be missing anyways. He can kill warriors, beserkers, sages, heroes, sniperrs, and pretty much any class other the general with ease.

Hero crests are only worth about 10,000 so it won't be hurting that much. And why is Raven stuck with iron weapons? All he needs is 1 steel sword about per level and a half.

QUOTE
What about protecting characters, getting to villages on time, keeping up with the group. of course movement is important. While archers are my favorite class, they are fail as they can't counter attack. High chance you won't be using them as they are locked to bows.

You need to elaborate more...


Touche on the movement. Archers are meant to snipe people with ballistas and assist in weakening enemies for your weaker units to kill.

QUOTE
Why does Raven deserve the Brave sword? He may be killing things later on but early on he is quite a bit behind the rest of your team.
No it is not possible to raise him in the chapter you get him because he has to recruit Lucius which means atleast 7 turns are wasted getting to him and back, By that time your other units will have cleared the chapter. To get 17x you need to beat CH:16 in less then 15 turns.

His painfully low luck hurts his dodging skills before promotion and even after he still has a bit of trouble.

and for funds... What? There are other units in the group you know, not just raven...

Ravben deserves a brave sword because since his speed is much higher than Harken's he will be landing 4 blows more often. He'll catch up to the team after a few chapters hopefully. You can have Florina rescue Lucius and fly back, drop him next to Lucius, and hgopefully by that time Raven had killed everything. And I'm positive about this, you only need to keep at least 1 soldier alive in chapter 17.

Around the time he promotes enemies will most likely have about a 40-60% chance of hitting him. After promotion( which will hopefully be around chapter 22 or 23, assuming you raised a small team) he should have 21 speed, and most generic enemies have about 7-12( which will be around 33%) skill, and then a, giving them the benefit of the doubt, 70% bonus from the weapon making it a base of 104% hit. Raven's avoid should be around 57. So 104-57= 47. But that's only level 1 in promotion. Remember that the numbers are giving the benefit of the doubt to the enemies. The only things that will have around 12 skill are bosses, paladins, nomad troopers, heroes, and sages.

The only other sword users that you will be using are most likely only Lyn( but she promotes a bit late, even if giving her the first hevean seal), maybe Guy but he has much lower strength than Raven and they'll both be doubling anyways, and Harken but if you are using him then you most likely aren't using Raven.
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I won't remove this until I have gotten an overkill extermination in Halo MLG.-started August 13, 2010, 8-13-2010 Got it on December 18, 2010! WOOT!
I won't remove this until I get a killtacular in Halo MLG- Started December 29, 2010.
QUOTE
Bloodfalcon22-pokemanzz cnt dye
FELover3- If I beat the shit out of them they do

QUOTE
Rujio -- Cows are more important than anything.
Rujio -- ANYTHING

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Blood Falcon -- Hey bblues, are you able to ban the GoogleBot?
bblues -- I don't think so.
Blood Falcon -- Damn, lol.
bblues -- He's above the law : P

QUOTE (Grey_Tensho @ March 10, 2010 04:07 pm)
Bloodfalcon is as crazy over copyright as youtube is lol.

#15 Seraphinox

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:58 PM

Man, I would love to counter but... We'll leave it and wait for Tino
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