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Pegasus Knights or Wyvern Knights?
Started by Bobryk, Dec 29 2010 06:36 AM
56 replies to this topic
#21
Swordsalmon
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Posted 20 January 2011 - 04:43 PM
| QUOTE |
You forgot one. Fe10: Haar > Jill > all Pegs (because they SUCK) |
I've never played FE10, so I can't really argue anything for it.
| QUOTE |
Insta-promote to Wyvern Knight and he's set to double just about everything in the game. Still a very solid unit. And Vanessa's not any better than Cormag in a casual playthrough. |
Or I can use that on Vanessa or Tana to make them Wyvern Knights and have steady offense throughout the game.
I'd actually say that unranked (Or... inefficient run, in FE8), Vanessa is even better. You can just camp and let her get her AnimaxAnima supports all built up before Cormag even joins.
#22
Rujio
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Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:40 AM
| QUOTE (Swordsalmon @ Jan 20 2011, 09:43 AM) |
Or I can use that on Vanessa or Tana to make them Wyvern Knights and have steady offense throughout the game. I'd actually say that unranked (Or... inefficient run, in FE8), Vanessa is even better. You can just camp and let her get her AnimaxAnima supports all built up before Cormag even joins. |
It takes a lot of work to get Tana/Vanessa there while Cormag's ready to go the moment he shows up. His 16 STR and 36 HP are, on average, well above Vanessa's even 20/1 averages and just above Tana's. His 12.5 DEF also beats either of their's at 20/1. And even on a casual playthrough, I doubt either are reaching that. That's a ridiculous amount of EXP while Cormag just shows up and is like that.
When I think of a casual run, I think of going through the game without trying anything especially hard, but generally not spending so much time grinding. So Vanessa's awful early game means she generally doesn't have much of a place as a combat unit.
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| Bobryk -- holy crap I look away for two seconds and I have knots all up in my shit |
#23
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hello world this be luka
Posted 26 January 2011 - 09:53 PM
Valni durr
Cormag gets buttraped by magic. His avoid isnt that great either.
Cormag gets buttraped by magic. His avoid isnt that great either.
#24
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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:34 PM
| QUOTE (Kai @ Jan 26 2011, 04:53 PM) |
| Valni durr Cormag gets buttraped by magic. His avoid isnt that great either. |
Aside from the Gorgon chapter, magic really isn't even a problem in Fe8.
#25
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hello world this be luka
Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:32 PM
In the ruins, the countless amount of Mogalls and Gorgans @_@
asdf
asdf
#26
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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:48 AM
I completely forgot about ruins XD fail. I guess for normal game there isn't much to worry about, but yeah, ruins are a much different story.
#27
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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:26 AM
FE7, Heath, on HHM, With the Afa's Drops is a beast.
He has the strength to take on anyone, te speed not to get double attacked by 99% of enemies, defence to take hits, his only real weakness is res and luck.
Unlike Peg Knights though, he can take the hits, and not die, which is neessary on HHM.
FE9, Jill, if you give her the Paladin Band, comes out very well. Or at least she did for me.
FE8, I find Tana to be better than Cormag. She needs a bit of effort initially, but Cormag simply lacks the luck to be an amazing unit, wheras Tana, as a Wyvern Knight, has the luck, strength and speed to do well.
FE10 Haar>ALL
Not the strongest unit, but by far the best.
He is always in my top 5 in the epilogue.
He has the strength to take on anyone, te speed not to get double attacked by 99% of enemies, defence to take hits, his only real weakness is res and luck.
Unlike Peg Knights though, he can take the hits, and not die, which is neessary on HHM.
FE9, Jill, if you give her the Paladin Band, comes out very well. Or at least she did for me.
FE8, I find Tana to be better than Cormag. She needs a bit of effort initially, but Cormag simply lacks the luck to be an amazing unit, wheras Tana, as a Wyvern Knight, has the luck, strength and speed to do well.
FE10 Haar>ALL
Not the strongest unit, but by far the best.
He is always in my top 5 in the epilogue.
#28
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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:09 AM
| QUOTE |
It takes a lot of work to get Tana/Vanessa there while Cormag's ready to go the moment he shows up. His 16 STR and 36 HP are, on average, well above Vanessa's even 20/1 averages and just above Tana's. His 12.5 DEF also beats either of their's at 20/1. And even on a casual playthrough, I doubt either are reaching that. That's a ridiculous amount of EXP while Cormag just shows up and is like that. When I think of a casual run, I think of going through the game without trying anything especially hard, but generally not spending so much time grinding. So Vanessa's awful early game means she generally doesn't have much of a place as a combat unit. |
If we're doing a 'casual' run, I can just spend my merry time camping, letting Vanessa steal kills and bringing up her supports so that she will completely dominate Cormag upon join. There's no reason to use him at all if Vanessa is going to be promoted, with +5 Attack, +5 Defense, and +25 Avoid from supports by the time he joins.
Regardless, Vanessa has extra flying utility on account of joining earlier, saves Ross, becomes a tank with supports, and is overall a bigger benefit than Cormag is. The comparison is a bit closer on Ephraim's mode, considering Cormag joins earlier and gets actual support options. But that's taken only half the time, and Vanessa still comes out better.
| QUOTE |
FE7, Heath, on HHM, With the Afa's Drops is a beast. He has the strength to take on anyone, te speed not to get double attacked by 99% of enemies, defence to take hits, his only real weakness is res and luck. Unlike Peg Knights though, he can take the hits, and not die, which is neessary on HHM. |
Everyone becomes quite a bit better with Afa's Drops. I'd rather save them for someone that can actually be trained, however.
Heath is actually pretty worthless in HHM. He gets completely screwed in the first chapters he's in and needs massive babying just to become useful. Has few viable supports, is slow until he catches up (Which is late in the game), and is an overall big liability. Heath might be better than Farina, but that's it.
Fliers are actually pretty bad in FE7. Florina and Fiora are decent due to joining at a reasonable time, but Heath and Farina are useless, and Vaida's little more than a filler unit.
#29
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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:49 AM
I do admit that Heath does need some babying, but if you get the chapter 23/...4? With Linus as the boss, there are a lot of decent levelled, low stat Pirates, and Heath did come with a nice Axereaver...
Its easy enough to get him to about level 18 in that chapter.
After that chapter, he becomes significantly easier to use than any pegasus knights. Archers will only do about 20 damage, instead of OHKO, He can get hit be Sleep, and survive until a healer crosses half of the map to heal/restore him (Cog of Destiny), has the power to 1-round pretty much 1-round any generic enemy magic user with a Javelin.
You might want to give the Afa's drops to someone else, but just having a flier who is not in constant danger is a HUGE help on pretty much every chapter in HHM.
Its easy enough to get him to about level 18 in that chapter.
After that chapter, he becomes significantly easier to use than any pegasus knights. Archers will only do about 20 damage, instead of OHKO, He can get hit be Sleep, and survive until a healer crosses half of the map to heal/restore him (Cog of Destiny), has the power to 1-round pretty much 1-round any generic enemy magic user with a Javelin.
You might want to give the Afa's drops to someone else, but just having a flier who is not in constant danger is a HUGE help on pretty much every chapter in HHM.
#30
Swordsalmon
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Posted 29 January 2011 - 08:19 PM
Heath can't be used at all in chapters 21-22x, because everything is destroying him. And sometimes he can't be used in Chapter 23, if Lloyd's route is taken (Which is actually fairly likely, considering how much of a detriment Lyn can be). Even in Chapter 24 Linus, there are enemy Wyvern Riders that kill Heath, ballistae, doubling Mercs, and the Axereaver doesn't last forever...
Afa's Drops are a nonfactor, because they can be given to anyone. There's a lot more candidates for Afa's Drops.
Also, Florina is likely to be promoted by the time Heath joins. Let's look at her stats, and unsupported.
Florina, level 20/1 w/ Iron Lance
HP: 33
Atk: 22
Def: 9
Res: 13
Avoid: 47%
That... doesn't look bad at all. If we're going Chapter 24 Linus, that means Lyn is going to be used. With an A support (Florina is Lyn's best support option), Florina's attack increases to 25, Defense and Res to 10 and 14, and Avoid to 53%. And that's only with a Lyn support; Fiora is also decent enough to be used and will take Florina as a support partner.
Heath remains worthless.
Afa's Drops are a nonfactor, because they can be given to anyone. There's a lot more candidates for Afa's Drops.
Also, Florina is likely to be promoted by the time Heath joins. Let's look at her stats, and unsupported.
Florina, level 20/1 w/ Iron Lance
HP: 33
Atk: 22
Def: 9
Res: 13
Avoid: 47%
That... doesn't look bad at all. If we're going Chapter 24 Linus, that means Lyn is going to be used. With an A support (Florina is Lyn's best support option), Florina's attack increases to 25, Defense and Res to 10 and 14, and Avoid to 53%. And that's only with a Lyn support; Fiora is also decent enough to be used and will take Florina as a support partner.
Heath remains worthless.
#31
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Posted 29 January 2011 - 09:26 PM
^I second that notion, but only because of the supports. Getting Pegasus KnightsFlorina to do damage is a freaking pain, the attack bonuses really help.
Though the distribution of archers and axe users (and the fact that both fliers can't really finish off enemy units in one round until later into the game) makes both units hard to train... which makes the time factor a big one (i.e. one has longer time to train Florina).
Though the distribution of archers and axe users (and the fact that both fliers can't really finish off enemy units in one round until later into the game) makes both units hard to train... which makes the time factor a big one (i.e. one has longer time to train Florina).
Signature thanks to Shu.
#32
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Posted 29 January 2011 - 10:49 PM
What I'm saying is that Heath is the perfect candidate for the Afas drops on HHM. He already comes with the substantial Hard Mode Bonus, so with about 1 or 2 more speed, he will double the pirates.
If you head to a specific portion of the map, on the water, you can stay out of archer and wyvern range, and intercept pirates as they head for the village in the bottom right. If you've given him the Afa's drops, by the time the axerever has gone down, he should be able to 1-round them with a steel axe, and take around 5 damage per hit. At this stage, he can also kill the wyverns.
Don't forget, you get another axereaver for free, I think in a chest or village somewhere. Now is a good time to use it.
I have only got Lloyd's chapter 23 once, on my very first playthrough, when I didn't train my Lords at all. By that stage, if they are not 20, you probably aren't levelling them up enough. The next chapter, one of them can promote, so you should really have them at 20 by then.
It could just be me, and my unorthodox playing style (I use about 3 fighting units, 4 support units, and Lords, bows are my favourite weapon...etc), but I think Heath, with the hard mode bonus, is the perfect candidate for the Afa's drops, and with them, he becomes a beast.
If you head to a specific portion of the map, on the water, you can stay out of archer and wyvern range, and intercept pirates as they head for the village in the bottom right. If you've given him the Afa's drops, by the time the axerever has gone down, he should be able to 1-round them with a steel axe, and take around 5 damage per hit. At this stage, he can also kill the wyverns.
Don't forget, you get another axereaver for free, I think in a chest or village somewhere. Now is a good time to use it.
I have only got Lloyd's chapter 23 once, on my very first playthrough, when I didn't train my Lords at all. By that stage, if they are not 20, you probably aren't levelling them up enough. The next chapter, one of them can promote, so you should really have them at 20 by then.
It could just be me, and my unorthodox playing style (I use about 3 fighting units, 4 support units, and Lords, bows are my favourite weapon...etc), but I think Heath, with the hard mode bonus, is the perfect candidate for the Afa's drops, and with them, he becomes a beast.
#33
Swordsalmon
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 03:44 AM
| QUOTE (Blazer @ Jan 29 2011, 04:26 PM) |
| ^I second that notion, but only because of the supports. Getting Though the distribution of archers and axe users (and the fact that both fliers can't really finish off enemy units in one round until later into the game) makes both units hard to train... which makes the time factor a big one (i.e. one has longer time to train Florina). |
Florina doesn't actually have offensive problems; the main issue is her durability. Which sadly, her ideal supports don't help with much. :/
She has a far better training situation compared to Heath; most of Lyn's mode and several easier chapters. Florina doesn't have troubles at all in this regard.
| QUOTE |
What I'm saying is that Heath is the perfect candidate for the Afas drops on HHM. He already comes with the substantial Hard Mode Bonus, so with about 1 or 2 more speed, he will double the pirates. If you head to a specific portion of the map, on the water, you can stay out of archer and wyvern range, and intercept pirates as they head for the village in the bottom right. If you've given him the Afa's drops, by the time the axerever has gone down, he should be able to 1-round them with a steel axe, and take around 5 damage per hit. At this stage, he can also kill the wyverns. Don't forget, you get another axereaver for free, I think in a chest or village somewhere. Now is a good time to use it. I have only got Lloyd's chapter 23 once, on my very first playthrough, when I didn't train my Lords at all. By that stage, if they are not 20, you probably aren't levelling them up enough. The next chapter, one of them can promote, so you should really have them at 20 by then. It could just be me, and my unorthodox playing style (I use about 3 fighting units, 4 support units, and Lords, bows are my favourite weapon...etc), but I think Heath, with the hard mode bonus, is the perfect candidate for the Afa's drops, and with them, he becomes a beast. |
Or I could give the Afa's Drops to someone like Guy or Raven, who also have HHM bonuses. Or Dorcas to make him double more enemies, or Marcus to give him steadier growths, etc. Every character wants Afa's Drops, and Heath doesn't have any particular claim on them.
So Heath can be trained by having him camp and waste valuable turns. You have to beat the stage far slower just to train Heath; this is a detriment. Of course, those Axereavers could instead be given to Florina and Fiora, who have a far better chance of one-rounding the Pirates. And some of them have Handaxes; it's not like Heath is going to suddenly be destroying hordes of Pirates and leveling up fast.
Using all the Lords isn't a given, however. Eliwood and Hector are good enough to be used consistently, but Lyn is only average at best. Lloyd's path is still a possibility. :/
#34
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 04:03 AM
| QUOTE |
| So Heath can be trained by having him camp and waste valuable turns. You have to beat the stage far slower just to train Heath; this is a detriment. Of course, those Axereavers could instead be given to Florina and Fiora, who have a far better chance of one-rounding the Pirates. And some of them have Handaxes; it's not like Heath is going to suddenly be destroying hordes of Pirates and leveling up fast. Using all the Lords isn't a given, however. Eliwood and Hector are good enough to be used consistently, but Lyn is only average at best. Lloyd's path is still a possibility. :/ |
Only some of them have handaxes. You'd be surprised how fast he can level up, especially since he comes at a low level.
Florina and Fiora, while they can one round them, if they take 2 hits, they are screwed. At a similar level to what Heath would start out at, I'd be surprised if they can 3-round the pirates.
Once you get heath a couple levels up, he can 1-round pirates with a steel lance.
Afas drops are best used on a low level unit, so as to maximise the effect. If you are training Florina or Fiora, they should probably be around level 3 Falcoknights by this stage (minimum), Wheras Heath would be at his starting level. He would benefit more.
Of course, all this is assuming you are not arena abusing. Otherwise, there would be no issue at all with training Heath.
Its simply stupid to give the Afas drops to a promoted unit, and Heath is one of the few unpromoted units at that stage in the game you could consider. You could wait for Farina, but she is likely to cap a fair few stats anyway, so she would not benefit as much. The Afas drops are best used on low level units, who would not otherwise be great
Dart is another candidate, he only usually caps strength and HP, but he can also turn into a monster. Dart though is much harder to train at chapters after you get the Afa's drops
Before you say that I am stupid for doing it this way, try it yourself.
Guy doesn't need them, he's uber enough as is.
Also, call it my playing style, but I say Lyn is the best Lord.
You gave the first 10 chapters to train her, so by chapter 15/16, where you get her n the second part of the game, she should be >level 10.
Unlike Eliwood or Hector, Lyn will pretty much double nearly everyone in the game. If you train her in bows, she will go VERY well with a Killer Bow, as with a Killing Edge. She also has the Mani Katti at her disposal, which does bonus damage to all mounted or armoured units. With 45 uses, and another 45 after chapter 15, as long as you don't waste it, it can be used steadily throughout the game. Its critical boost, with Lyn's high speed, skill, and decent luck, lets her get a good critical chance with it too.
Ideally, I like to have my Lords at level 20 at the Dragons Gate chapter. Eliwood is a good Tank, Hector is a good sweeper, and Lyn is just better than you'd expect.
#35
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 04:49 AM
| QUOTE (ablon08 @ Jan 29 2011, 11:03 PM) |
Only some of them have handaxes. You'd be surprised how fast he can level up, especially since he comes at a low level. Florina and Fiora, while they can one round them, if they take 2 hits, they are screwed. At a similar level to what Heath would start out at, I'd be surprised if they can 3-round the pirates. Once you get heath a couple levels up, he can 1-round pirates with a steel lance. Afas drops are best used on a low level unit, so as to maximise the effect. If you are training Florina or Fiora, they should probably be around level 3 Falcoknights by this stage (minimum), Wheras Heath would be at his starting level. He would benefit more. Of course, all this is assuming you are not arena abusing. Otherwise, there would be no issue at all with training Heath. Its simply stupid to give the Afas drops to a promoted unit, and Heath is one of the few unpromoted units at that stage in the game you could consider. You could wait for Farina, but she is likely to cap a fair few stats anyway, so she would not benefit as much. The Afas drops are best used on low level units, who would not otherwise be great Dart is another candidate, he only usually caps strength and HP, but he can also turn into a monster. Dart though is much harder to train at chapters after you get the Afa's drops Before you say that I am stupid for doing it this way, try it yourself. Guy doesn't need them, he's uber enough as is. Also, call it my playing style, but I say Lyn is the best Lord. You gave the first 10 chapters to train her, so by chapter 15/16, where you get her n the second part of the game, she should be >level 10. Unlike Eliwood or Hector, Lyn will pretty much double nearly everyone in the game. If you train her in bows, she will go VERY well with a Killer Bow, as with a Killing Edge. She also has the Mani Katti at her disposal, which does bonus damage to all mounted or armoured units. With 45 uses, and another 45 after chapter 15, as long as you don't waste it, it can be used steadily throughout the game. Its critical boost, with Lyn's high speed, skill, and decent luck, lets her get a good critical chance with it too. Ideally, I like to have my Lords at level 20 at the Dragons Gate chapter. Eliwood is a good Tank, Hector is a good sweeper, and Lyn is just better than you'd expect. |
The chance of Florina and Fiora actually being hit is... extremely low. Again, unsupported 20/1 Florina w/ Iron Sword has 53% Avoid, which increases to 65% because of WTA against the Pirates. With Fiora B, this increases to a total of 74%. She has far better durability than Heath against the Pirates.
Max possible benefit doesn't really matter much, since Heath won't be reaching 20/20. Very few characters will be reaching this
#36
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:07 AM
| QUOTE |
| The chance of Florina and Fiora actually being hit is... extremely low. Again, unsupported 20/1 Florina w/ Iron Sword has 53% Avoid, which increases to 65% because of WTA against the Pirates. With Fiora B, this increases to a total of 74%. She has far better durability than Heath against the Pirates. Max possible benefit doesn't really matter much, since Heath won't be reaching 20/20. Very few characters will be reaching this |
You can watch the whole playthrough.
I had about 5 20/20s. NO Arena Abuse, or experience farming in any way was done through the playthrough.
I gave the Afas Drops to Matthew, who was my lowest level at the time.
74% Avoid is not sufficient, especially when the weapon triangle is against you. Every 3rd attack or so would land a hit. She doesn't have the HP or Defence to handle that.
If you want to talk durability, Guy-Matthew Combo. >90% Avoid, >50% Crit, with a Iron Sword.
In any case, they would have to use the Axereaver in order to survive the pirate attacks, where, at his starting level, Heath can take about 4 or 5 hits from the pirates, without any form of healing. As he grows levels, his HP will rise, and will start to take under 5 damage from hits. At that point, heath on his own would be more effective in that chapter than Florina and Fiora, with supports.
As a level 20/10, Heath should have already capped HP, Strength, Speed and Defence, with the Afa's Drops, and Hard Mode Bonus. His Luck and Res are characteristically Average, but he is an amazing mobile tank/sweeper, wheras Pegasi are only mobile. They can't deal heavy damage or take hard hits.
Heath is also Thunder affinity, which is one of the 2 usable affinities. With the Afa's Drops, Hard Mode bonus, and the Affinity Bonus, things aren't looking so bad for him.
It is unlikely that either of us are going to change our opinions.
The debat is still fun thuogh
On a slightly different note, I'm doing a run of Fire Emblem: Thracia 776.
This is my first time playing, and I'm doing it completely blind. I started awhile ago, and I just 2 days ago beat the forest chapter, with the rewarping dark mages, and the undodgable Berserk staff. I started training the Wyvern Rider Eda. So far, she's around a level 16, unpromoted unit, and she is coming out very nicely. Is she amazing, or am I just getting lucky, like people always tell me with Wil?
#37
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:16 PM
| QUOTE (ablon08 @ Jan 30 2011, 12:07 AM) |
You can watch the whole playthrough. I had about 5 20/20s. NO Arena Abuse, or experience farming in any way was done through the playthrough. I gave the Afas Drops to Matthew, who was my lowest level at the time. 74% Avoid is not sufficient, especially when the weapon triangle is against you. Every 3rd attack or so would land a hit. She doesn't have the HP or Defence to handle that. If you want to talk durability, Guy-Matthew Combo. >90% Avoid, >50% Crit, with a Iron Sword. In any case, they would have to use the Axereaver in order to survive the pirate attacks, where, at his starting level, Heath can take about 4 or 5 hits from the pirates, without any form of healing. As he grows levels, his HP will rise, and will start to take under 5 damage from hits. At that point, heath on his own would be more effective in that chapter than Florina and Fiora, with supports. As a level 20/10, Heath should have already capped HP, Strength, Speed and Defence, with the Afa's Drops, and Hard Mode Bonus. His Luck and Res are characteristically Average, but he is an amazing mobile tank/sweeper, wheras Pegasi are only mobile. They can't deal heavy damage or take hard hits. Heath is also Thunder affinity, which is one of the 2 usable affinities. With the Afa's Drops, Hard Mode bonus, and the Affinity Bonus, things aren't looking so bad for him. It is unlikely that either of us are going to change our opinions. The debat is still fun thuogh On a slightly different note, I'm doing a run of Fire Emblem: Thracia 776. This is my first time playing, and I'm doing it completely blind. I started awhile ago, and I just 2 days ago beat the forest chapter, with the rewarping dark mages, and the undodgable Berserk staff. I started training the Wyvern Rider Eda. So far, she's around a level 16, unpromoted unit, and she is coming out very nicely. Is she amazing, or am I just getting lucky, like people always tell me with Wil? |
It's the final chapter of the game. You only have 20/20s at this point, so it really doesn't hold much weight at all.
The weapon triange isn't against Florina and Fiora, because they can use swords. The Pirates have about... 98% Hit, so there's a 24% displayed Hit. Which actually turns out to be 11.74% True Hit percentage. She's not going to be hit.
Guy is far better than everyone we're debating. :/
Heath's durability is still lower than Florina, because he has a higher chance of being hit. Florina is outdoing him both offensively and defensively at his join.
He catches up after promotion, but that's pretty late. In comparison...
Heath, level 20/1 w/ Killer Lance
HP: 46
Atk: 29
Def: 15
Res: 7
AS: 17
Avoid: 44%
Crt: 39%
Florina, level 20/5 w/ Killer Lance
HP: 36
Atk: 31
Def: 11
Res: 16
AS: 17
Avoid: 68%
Crt: 64%
Lyn A, Fiora B
They still look pretty even defensively, especially since Florina can raise her Avoid by using a ligher weapon. However, Heath still can't beat Florina on the offense at all. After all the work babying Heath, he still isn't doing particularly better anywhere. :/
It's only until very late when Heath starts being better. However, that still doesn't mean much when Florina is superior for virtually the entire game.
Heath's support options are actually really bad. All his supports take 41/81/121 turns (Except Louise, which is 41/161), and none of them are actually viable. Kent has far better choices in Sain, Fiora, and Lyn. Priscilla has her entire support list. Legault is unreliable because he has theif stuff to do, and Vaida is filler at best. Heath's not getting any supports.
Your argument is relying on Afa's Drops again. Heath isn't guaranteed it, and really shows something if he can compete only if he uses the item.
Eda is really bad, and is actually quite a detriment. You won't get much out of her that you'll get out of... virtually anyone.
Dean is the best flier when it comes to fighting, but none of them are good indoors.Thracia 776 is my favorite Fire Emblem.
#38
ablon08
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 10:58 PM
That is a Heath without the Hard Mode Bonus, Affinity bonus, or Afa's Drops.
And with a sword, Florina will definitely not be able to one-round the pirates.
Also, take Con into account. Florina's con is poor, to say the least, but Heath has very good Con.
You also said
And with a sword, Florina will definitely not be able to one-round the pirates.
Also, take Con into account. Florina's con is poor, to say the least, but Heath has very good Con.
You also said
| QUOTE |
| Heath won't be reaching 20/20. Very few characters will be reaching this |
And then
| QUOTE |
| It's the final chapter of the game. You only have 20/20s at this point, so it really doesn't hold much weight at all. |
Fact is, that if you give Heath the bonuses, he goes from being a bad unit, to an amazing unit. Wyvern Lords have generally very high Stat caps. With the bonuses, he will reach the caps. THAT is why you give him the bonuses. In the long run, they will have a noticeable effect, and he has a lot of levels to benefit from them.
Like I said, the Afa's drops are best used on Average units, who would not normally cap their stats. If you give it to Florina, who will cap some stats anyway, she has less of a benefit.
Also, you said earlier that you
As for Eda, I must be getting lucky. She's like a level 17, unpromoted unit, and she's already capped defence.
#39
Swordsalmon
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Posted 31 January 2011 - 01:58 AM
| QUOTE |
That is a Heath without the Hard Mode Bonus, Affinity bonus, or Afa's Drops. And with a sword, Florina will definitely not be able to one-round the pirates. Also, take Con into account. Florina's con is poor, to say the least, but Heath has very good Con. |
I added HHM bonuses to Heath's averages. :/ Also, the affinity bonus is nearly nonexistant anyways, and I could make the tactician Light affinity to benefit Florina instead. Also, Afa's Drops are void because there's simply too much competition for it. Heck, I could give the Drops to Florina instead.
I took Con into account, too. Florina's AS increases if she's using something lighter than the Killer Lance.
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And then |
Characters like Marcus will likely reach 20/20, characters like Guy and Raven may reach 20/20 by the end of the game. Heath has virtually no chance of 20/20, because he joins far too underleveled (Effectively 2-3 chapters later due to being killed by everything).
| QUOTE |
Fact is, that if you give Heath the bonuses, he goes from being a bad unit, to an amazing unit. Wyvern Lords have generally very high Stat caps. With the bonuses, he will reach the caps. THAT is why you give him the bonuses. In the long run, they will have a noticeable effect, and he has a lot of levels to benefit from them. Like I said, the Afa's drops are best used on Average units, who would not normally cap their stats. If you give it to Florina, who will cap some stats anyway, she has less of a benefit. Also, you said earlier that you |
So? Every character becomes a lot better with the Afa's Drops. Heath has no particular claim on them, as such. I could instead use them on say, Dart or Geitz, who would also benefit quite a bit from them. No one is guaranteed the Afa's Drops.
Also, it doesn't help much in the long run because Heath is available for a fairly short amount of time. His usefullness from the Drops only come into effect late on, where everyone is still beating him.
Or I could give the Drops to someone already good, have them cap their stats early, and proceed to one-round everything in the game. :/
| QUOTE |
As for Eda, I must be getting lucky. She's like a level 17, unpromoted unit, and she's already capped defence. |
Pretty much. Eda's average Defense at level 17 is 11. She's actually one of the worst characters in FE5.
#40
ablon08
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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:39 AM
Its just bad strategy to give the Afa's drops to a unit like Florina, who does not benefit from them. Heath has very high Stat caps, and he does not normally reach them. With the drops, and over 30 levels to make use of them, he will reach most of them
Florina, has reasonably average stat caps, many of which she will reach normally. You've already had Florina for many, many chapters, so she should be a Falcoknight. In the long run, they will make next to no difference.
Like I said, give the drops to a low level, not so brilliant unit, who doesn't normally hit their caps.
My Candidates:
Heath
Dart
Matthew (Needs Strength and Skill, badly)
Legault
Hector (Needs speed...badly)
It really isn't hard to train Heath, maybe you should try it, instead of just theorising. I've done 7 HHM runs to date (I play way too much), and Heath has been a huge asset on the 5 I trained him on.
If you think Heath is hard to train, how do people manage to train Nino? She comes at level 5, with pathetic stats. Heath is usable when you get him, and you have a lot of chapters where durable fliers come in handy.
On HHM in chapter 32 (Victory or Death), my heath tanked out 4 ballistas, 2 snipers, 3 Wyvern Lords, about 6 Knights and a General, in 1 turn. This was after being targeted by Berserk, Eclipse, and various ballistas, as he went straight for the villages North of the s tarting point.
Tell me he doesn't come in handy.
Wheras Farina, who attempted to tail him, at level 20/12, got taken down to under 10HP when hit by 1 ballista.
Farina is significantly better than Heath if he doesn't get the bonuses/ My Farina had very good stats (though her defence was about 2 points under the average), but Heath was simply the better unit. Farina may be able to double hit more enemies, but both of her hits combined with a silver sword did 2 more damage than 1 hit from Heath's Steel lance of doom.
Next time you play HHM, try it.
If it turns out badly, feel free to yell at me.
Oh, and I always choose the Thunder element, as Hector is Thunder affinity, and he needs all the speed he can get. I base my choice off of who benefits the most. Its a small added bonus for Heath, but I choose it for Hector.
I'm also looking at Eda's growths now, and they do seem pretty lackluster...if only I was this lucky with leaf.
Florina, has reasonably average stat caps, many of which she will reach normally. You've already had Florina for many, many chapters, so she should be a Falcoknight. In the long run, they will make next to no difference.
Like I said, give the drops to a low level, not so brilliant unit, who doesn't normally hit their caps.
My Candidates:
Heath
Dart
Matthew (Needs Strength and Skill, badly)
Legault
Hector (Needs speed...badly)
It really isn't hard to train Heath, maybe you should try it, instead of just theorising. I've done 7 HHM runs to date (I play way too much), and Heath has been a huge asset on the 5 I trained him on.
If you think Heath is hard to train, how do people manage to train Nino? She comes at level 5, with pathetic stats. Heath is usable when you get him, and you have a lot of chapters where durable fliers come in handy.
On HHM in chapter 32 (Victory or Death), my heath tanked out 4 ballistas, 2 snipers, 3 Wyvern Lords, about 6 Knights and a General, in 1 turn. This was after being targeted by Berserk, Eclipse, and various ballistas, as he went straight for the villages North of the s tarting point.
Tell me he doesn't come in handy.
Wheras Farina, who attempted to tail him, at level 20/12, got taken down to under 10HP when hit by 1 ballista.
Farina is significantly better than Heath if he doesn't get the bonuses/ My Farina had very good stats (though her defence was about 2 points under the average), but Heath was simply the better unit. Farina may be able to double hit more enemies, but both of her hits combined with a silver sword did 2 more damage than 1 hit from Heath's Steel lance of doom.
Next time you play HHM, try it.
If it turns out badly, feel free to yell at me.
Oh, and I always choose the Thunder element, as Hector is Thunder affinity, and he needs all the speed he can get. I base my choice off of who benefits the most. Its a small added bonus for Heath, but I choose it for Hector.
I'm also looking at Eda's growths now, and they do seem pretty lackluster...if only I was this lucky with leaf.
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