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@  xcrash1998 : (26 February 2020 - 09:55 AM) Not anymore
@  Mage Girl : (17 February 2020 - 02:33 AM) I can safely say I'm so far the only person to post to this shoutbox in 2020...
@  Fire Blazer : (24 December 2019 - 03:17 AM) naw, it's when the bots make collaborated efforts to crawl places, lol
@  kirant : (23 December 2019 - 05:20 AM) What do we do on Index Day? Give each other bots?
@  Fire Blazer : (16 December 2019 - 01:39 AM) LOL
@  xcrash1998 : (30 November 2019 - 11:07 PM) New fictional holiday "Index Day"
@  Fire Blazer : (28 November 2019 - 08:52 PM) yeah just guest bots and stuff I think :( we really were active once upon a time though...
@  kirant : (26 November 2019 - 03:48 PM) No invasion. I imagine a lot of guest bots visiting for indexing purposes.
@  xcrash1998 : (26 November 2019 - 02:15 PM) How is most people online at 959 for the 8th of October of this year? Is that right? Did I miss something or was there somekind of spambot invasion?
@  xcrash1998 : (26 November 2019 - 02:06 PM) I know what you mean, it gets awkard to post something unrelated to the current conversation, and even if somebody picks up on it, it would just become a huge mess in the c hatbox if a multitude of groups talk about different topics.
@  Fire Blazer : (10 November 2019 - 11:45 PM) especially better imo if you want to update on a topic but like only occasionally (e.g. a project you're working on or a let's play of a game)
@  Fire Blazer : (10 November 2019 - 11:44 PM) it's hard for me to explain precisely why but forums just like work better for meaningful discussion over a longer period of time ig
@  Fire Blazer : (10 November 2019 - 11:44 PM) but that's def just not hte same ig, idk
@  Fire Blazer : (10 November 2019 - 11:44 PM) yeah, you can also kind of respond at your own pace on forums. Discord conversations are often like... it's awkward to respond to something that happened a while ago, especially if the server is active, but even just in general. since you sort of need to keep track of multiple conversations at once at times, and it's not like it has a good reply/quote system ala forums, closest thing really is to copy/paste or screenshot the text you're responding to and then type a response below
@  Elwood : (09 November 2019 - 11:29 AM) Adding on to what's been said, I just enjoy the order and structure of the forums. You can look through the threads and know exactly what people are talking about. Conversation get lost and buried on discord which is why I'm not a big fan of it.
@  kirant : (06 November 2019 - 05:31 AM) I enjoy that part of forums too. They become niche communities where you can have very specialized conversations as opposed to the cluttered mess in Discord.
@  Ezra : (31 October 2019 - 01:17 AM) Yeah, part of me wishes I could go back to the times forums were more prevalent. I really enjoyed how even several different forums based off the same franchise could feel so different. It's not like what we now is bad though, I just feel nostalgic for old times.
@  Fire Blazer : (30 October 2019 - 06:39 AM) also forums in general are just not as prevalent, there are so many other ways to interact these days, like Twitter, FB, Tumblr, etc., where you can just throw your thoughts into the void. I think that's the real issue and that the only people rly interested in forums these days are either super dedicated to whatever they're about, have a specific reason/need to (e.g. support forums), or grew up with them and are thus attached to the idea enough to continue to try and use them (this was kinda me for a while lol but things happen, I couldn't keep it up forever)
@  Fire Blazer : (30 October 2019 - 06:36 AM) I've posted on SF for various reasons ofc but in terms of like making friends and stuff it's p. much just been smaller groups/forums, yeah. mainly FES
@  Elwood : (27 October 2019 - 10:08 PM) Only reason I'm even on Serenes was because I had hacking questions. @Ezra yeah I figured it must be an age thing. I've been called an old man by many a child because I use Facebook.

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3 things Gaiden/SoV does that I wish was reflected in all FE games


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#1 Mercurius

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:03 PM

Shields

I cannot describe to you just how much easier Fates on Lunatic would have been if I had these in that game. Obviously you would need to have some kind of default weapon for this to work (either that or make the boosts so good you don't need to attack? but that sounds OP in its own way) but even with other games if you had an option in inventory management to take a more defensive stance during the enemy phase it would mean so much for how you set up your turns.

 

It's a shame GBA hacks have a problem with pulling this off since you can't balance out def/res boosts by adding a speed penalty though, due to how the games weren't designed to consider any items causing stat nerfs. (names would get annoying too to keep it within the weapon system, like "Slvr Shld w/ B" to mean "Silver shield with bow" for archers...not even sure if that fits within the display limit, either.)

 

Summons that actually matter

Remember FE8 with its hilariously situational phantoms? This game wasn't having any of that. Invoke had to be one of the most useful things in the game (and basically the only thing Celica's team had over Alm's team prior to Act 4 tbh) for keeping your not exactly tanky units alive and useful. A lot of the time in FE games the actual competence of the enemy units drops significantly once you reach mid-lategame and beyond, but if the developers did feel like having the enemies keep up with you or even be stronger, having cannon fodder to protect your troops would give me a hell of a lot more confidence to play it on classic mode. (Lunatic Classic on Fates was just...ugh. Not something I'd want to do again.)

 

Extra range bows

Now as stupid as I think it is that bows have point blank attack range in this game (I don't even want enemies that close to my archers even in FE15 anyway) it's well known that archers in FE games tend to be underwhelming units, and a big part of that has to do with mages just being way too much better than them most of the time. Magic gets away with 1-2 range on nearly all the tomes, resistance stats aren't very likely to be high on enemy teams, you can straight up carry your superlongrange options like Bolting whereas archers need to have a vehicle or a fixed machine on the map to do the same thing, and having worse durability against enemies isn't even that much of a con in comparison to being straight up unable to counterattack.

 

I'm pretty sure most archers throughout the series could at least get away with making almost every bow 2-3 range or something, making the longbows 2-4 or 2-5 range while they're at it. Even as someone who does use bows in most FE games that's usually a matter of handaxe/javelin not having enough might to finish something off or to hit something three spaces away. We could also re-introduce crossbows for other units (weapons with fixed attack power) that are primarily melee-focused so that the bow-exclusive units get away with being the only ones to have bows that are viable for the whole game. They just deserve to have some kind of non-situational edge over mages, you know?

 

I think if I am going to have archers which have the ability to counterattack at 1 range I'd rather they just have a dagger they default to once they're that close to the enemy. That way they don't get all the stat bonuses of their weapon (and don't look kind of dumb bothering to shoot from so close) but still have something they can do about it when they've become forced to fight that close.

 

----

 

That's all I have to say and while there are a number of other fun things this game does that others don't I personally feel like that only functions the way it should in FE15 because its system is designed to support it. Do you think anything else this weirdo of the franchise has warrants being in other FE titles?


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#2 Blue Leafeon

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:07 AM

I agree with you completely, on all accounts. Shields are a great item, for sure. Made even more balanced in that you can either have a shield or a more powerful weapon equipped, but not both. (Something FEGBA probably couldn't do, since shields are Always Active in that game and there's a 5-space inventory limit.)

 

You have a point about archers using daggers or something at close range. IRL if you were faced with a dude charging at you with a weapon, you don't have time to nock, draw the string, aim, and release the string. RL archers probably carried swords just in case. Then again, you can only have one weapon in this game, so I guess it's a matter of (strangely enough) limits in mechanics for why they can't use something else. That being said, there's nothing specifically wrong at firing at point-blank range... It's just extremely unethical. 

 

Archers normally being able to fire at 2-2 range is definitely weird. This game fixes that by giving them more realistic range that grows as time goes on. I approve entirely.

 

The summons are great. Best thing is, they're illusions and not real people so I don't have to feel bad by sending them to their deaths constantly. ;)


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#3 kirant

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:28 PM

You have a point about archers using daggers or something at close range. IRL if you were faced with a dude charging at you with a weapon, you don't have time to nock, draw the string, aim, and release the string. RL archers probably carried swords just in case.

Many had much less.  Archery was considered a peasant's role for much of history, especially most of the time including and prior to the early middle ages.  It's important to note that archers never really carried the day.  There are rare cases of it but often are attributable to other circumstances (weather, incompetence of an enemy). 

 

The low status meant they were typically bottom of the priority list for decking out in anything more than a little padded armour, a buckler (depending on the age), a helmet, and an insignia of their lord.  And their bow/arrow of course.  Older ages often had archers given a dagger for the rare circumstance they ever engaged in melee combat (see: ancient era).  I think many medieval archers were given better equipment (some given swords...though swords are expensive.  I know English archers sometimes used mauls as they were also used to prepare their defences). 

 

Part of the problem in FE is certainly mixing the medieval truth with fiction (where we have guys in light clothing tearing apart armies).  A "fix" in FE I think would be to nerf the perpetually strong magic users (ex - bringing attack power of their weapons down compared to all other possible equipment), give archers 1-2 range but give them a penalty at short range (ex - use only 70% of base accuracy).  That way you don't need to come up with a convoluted system of "fake weapons" like they did with priests in Radiant Dawn and don't need to fear that your archer has an emergency melee attack more lethal than the ranged one. 


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#4 Rujio

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:22 PM

Archers in FE aren't ever really going to accurately reflect real-life archers, anyway. Individual archers didn't really pick out individual enemies, masses of archers fired at masses of enemies. So we might as well get creative with them, and I think you can at least make a solid argument for bows having a longer range than most javelins or magic.


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#5 Mercurius

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 07:26 PM

Then again, you can only have one weapon in this game, so I guess it's a matter of (strangely enough) limits in mechanics for why they can't use something else.

This is actually false. All mages carry several different tomes and Alm has both sword and bow available to him at all times when promoted as default weapons.

 

I think many medieval archers were given better equipment (some given swords...though swords are expensive.

I've heard from an instructor of historical european martial arts that in medieval times soldiers were actually expected to pay for their own stuff, so how much favor the authorities would have for your position probably wasn't actually that relevant. On that note that same person also points out that you could get a sword for rather cheap, but much like modern tools, some of them are just less reliable than others to warrant their price.

 

In the case you actually end up on the battlefield during your career and your side wins, I'm willing to bet that looting weapons off of your dead enemies was very much an option for people too. 


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#6 kirant

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 09:25 PM

Archers in FE aren't ever really going to accurately reflect real-life archers, anyway. Individual archers didn't really pick out individual enemies, masses of archers fired at masses of enemies.

 

For sure.  You had volley fire for obvious reasons.  That said, if we're "anime-fying" the notion of an archer, I'd prefer to take it into the direction that we take light swordsmen and just turn them into one man armies (for reasons below)

 

So we might as well get creative with them, and I think you can at least make a solid argument for bows having a longer range than most javelins or magic.

The problem I have is the exponential power distance weaponry has as distances get larger.  Grid based games which typically rely on 1 square distances put a lot of power into every square you can put on your enemy.  Mobility is a big thing.  Many efficiency tiers will gravitate towards higher movement units at the top while our knights, even when powerful, get weighed down heavily.

 

The same thing happens with ranged weapons.  A good analog I think is how powerful even a +1 range on artillery are in Advance Wars (and how crippling having a 2-2 range artillery is).  True, there are things you'd want to translate but I think they work in my favour as indirect in Advance Wars can't move and shoot...getting the ability to gain distance and shoot from a further distance just lets you exploit your mobility further.  The area you can zone is insane.  Even a base 2-3 would be pretty crazy for step and shoot archers. 

 

If we go the route of archers getting longer distances, I think we'd want to add further restrictions.  Weaker power, lower accuracy, and higher weight all at once...or maybe give them the AW disadvantage and require them to have a turn's set up to shoot.  Something like retreat 4 and shoot the enemy harassing you in melee sounds like a game breaking combination since you can do so many things at once. 

 

I've heard from an instructor of historical european martial arts that in medieval times soldiers were actually expected to pay for their own stuff, so how much favor the authorities would have for your position probably wasn't actually that relevant.

To some degree from what my memory tells me.  I think you were expected to arm your own town.  As such, when your lord came in asking for you to tag along, you were already half prepared for war.


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