Jump to content



Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

@  Fire Blazer : (12 January 2019 - 08:55 PM) tho personally I guess I'm not too afraid of responding to old messages anyway sometimes, haha
@  Fire Blazer : (12 January 2019 - 08:54 PM) to have discussions where people respond at their own convenience
@  Fire Blazer : (12 January 2019 - 08:54 PM) forums could still be used but we'd have to make a bit of an effort I guess
@  Fire Blazer : (12 January 2019 - 08:54 PM) I agree with Mage Girl/Cero/Elwood/Kirant lolol
@  xcrash1998 : (12 January 2019 - 10:15 AM) And yeah missing stuff on discord is easy depending on when most people are online
@  xcrash1998 : (12 January 2019 - 10:11 AM) I think there are just fewer people interested in taking part on forums since most information is already accesible trough the many means.
@  Mercurius : (09 January 2019 - 02:46 AM) Well, at the same time I also don't frequent most of the discord channels I'm a part of, though.
@  Mercurius : (09 January 2019 - 02:46 AM) I used to prefer forums but I've been spoiled by the "everything at the same hub" thing...
@  kirant : (06 January 2019 - 07:39 PM) I'm of pretty similar opinion...it's easy to miss a good discussion on Discord (which plays much more into a "stream of consciousness" feel).
@  Elwood : (04 January 2019 - 10:42 PM) I prefer forums because they keep everything more organized. With Discord you can have 3 conversations jumbled together and not know what anyone is talking about. It's also way easier to miss stuff.
@  Cero : (31 December 2018 - 07:23 AM) mhmm, its rough
@  Mage Girl : (29 December 2018 - 11:33 AM) I feel like a lot of forums have much less traffic because most of us who appreciate them are much busier than we used to be, and I don't think the younger generation is too keen on finding forums anymore
@  Mage Girl : (29 December 2018 - 11:26 AM) @Fire Blazer No worries, I figured holidays and all you weren't going to respond right away
@  Fire Blazer : (28 December 2018 - 09:16 PM) @Mage Girl, sorry I just saw your message, replied to your PM just now, hope you see my response!
@  Fire Blazer : (28 December 2018 - 09:10 PM) even SF doesn't seem that active compared to before :(
@  Fire Blazer : (28 December 2018 - 09:10 PM) yeah rip, I did try multiple times to keep the forums alive but they just aren't really popular anymore
@  acceptance : (28 December 2018 - 12:44 AM) I came here for the shoutbox but now that I'm in the Discord server I seldom come here anymore.
@  acceptance : (28 December 2018 - 12:43 AM) Yeah.
@  kirant : (23 December 2018 - 07:42 PM) That's pretty true. I log in daily just to make sure there's no issues, but I think using a forum system isn't popular for quite a few of the users here.
@  Ezra : (21 December 2018 - 09:34 AM) Looks like this place had the same turn out as the TEB community, forums died for the most part but the members remain active via other means.

Photo

"That isn't even hard/real difficulty"


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 Mercurius

Mercurius

    Ars est celare artem

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,408 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Digital art, idealistic stories, MMOs, SRPGs, hunting games, FAAAAAAAAAAABULOUS-ness, and staying out of the social order.

Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:54 AM

Enemies hitting you for huge numbers? Way higher durability on their end? Fight takes longer than five minutes? Maybe some enemy speed buffs and more spawns?

 

"This game is easy as hell. It's just tedious, not hard."

 

Putting aside for a moment that it's a fairly common feature for the ones saying this to have went out of their way to equip themselves with the best gear they can get to make the difficulty as tolerable as possible (and sometimes they will bitch really hard when their OP thing gets nerfed) there's a part of me that just doesn't understand when gamers got the idea that anything which isn't a short test of tactical revision doesn't count as actual difficulty.

 

Yeah sure, go ahead about how devs these days are so lazy to not bother doing anything but beef up the enemies some instead of reprogramming each instance to throw you off guard on higher difficulty settings. Whatever.

 

That denial though. "It isn't my fault that I'm having trouble with this, the game is just stupid!" There are a lot of things that can change through differences in value. Imagine if I told someone that playing Monster Hunter without potions is no more difficult than playing them with a fully prepared inventory, because your HP essentially being extended by restoration doesn't count as something that makes it easier. "See, all that does is just makes things more tedious." Because you need to have the patience to actually stay on your toes? What about armor then? All those damage+ modifiers you've got on your stuff? "Of course I need those. Sharpness+1 is just too necessary." Let's say you've got your potions, but you don't get to have your extra extra hard hitting stuff. What then? Does the requirement of having to manage your resources for a longer period of time not count for shit? What about how people often have to actually approach the situation differently merely because of value changes messing with their windows of opportunity?

 

Where the hell did this idea come from? I mean I guess you've got those people who've excused their inability to win something on a handicap as the game being too grindy for a while now, but it seems like there isn't a whole lot of factors that should count for what makes a game challenging anymore. Even one of my friends who couldn't deal with environmental hazards in one boss fight (this was in an MMO) simply said "this isn't even hard" after dying time and time again to them even though you can position yourself to avoid them. What really counts for difficulty in game design then? How efficient you can show yourself off to be?


I believe in judgment of humans through their judgment of fiction, for nothing else tells better of their disposition freed from apprehension.


#2 ^Leo^

^Leo^

    Mega Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 807 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:the magical land of cleve

Posted 16 December 2016 - 09:43 AM

My take on it is that taking an old enemy, changing the color, and giving it 1000 hp instead of 100 without changing anything else doesn't make it a harder fight. If that enemy is also given higher defenses+attacking power such that it can kill you in 5 hits instead of 10 does make it a harder fight. In things like an action rpg especially where the responsibility of dodging is on the player then an enemy being stronger than the last one makes it more difficult. Just making it so that an enemy takes longer to fight because it has more hp and takes hits better really doesn't affect the fight in any meaningful way though.

#3 Mercurius

Mercurius

    Ars est celare artem

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,408 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Digital art, idealistic stories, MMOs, SRPGs, hunting games, FAAAAAAAAAAABULOUS-ness, and staying out of the social order.

Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:17 AM

I honestly can barely think of any situation where that actually happens though. Most of the time if its HP is going to be beefed up, so is the rest of it, either that or the enemy is already lethal enough as-is to make it actually surviving for a relatively long time an issue. This especially applies in games where you can potentially burn out all of your immediate resources (MP / SP / lengths of buff time whatever) in an attempt to kill something ASAP and failing to do so.


I believe in judgment of humans through their judgment of fiction, for nothing else tells better of their disposition freed from apprehension.


#4 Blue Leafeon

Blue Leafeon

    Mega Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 518 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

As per the norm, prepare for me to completely miss Mercu's overall point.

 

"That isn't even hard/real difficulty"

 

To be fair, False Difficulty does exist. This doesn't seem to be what you're speaking of, precisely, but just throwing it out there. LoZ, for example, is quite famous with its false difficulty (granted, that's about the only difficulty it can have on Master Quests that isn't completely recoding enemies.)

 

Putting aside for a moment that it's a fairly common feature for the ones saying this to have went out of their way to equip themselves with the best gear they can get to make the difficulty as tolerable as possible

>People who play Pokemon Sun/Moon with exp.share on and then complain that the game was too easy.

Please, children. Turn it off. Turn it off the moment you get it, and THEN play through the game. I think you'll find that the game is actually quite challenging.

 

 

My take on it is that taking an old enemy, changing the color, and giving it 1000 hp instead of 100 without changing anything else doesn't make it a harder fight.

That's true, although I can't think of any instance where this happens. But I have played less varieties of games than most people.

 

there's a part of me that just doesn't understand when gamers got the idea that anything which isn't a short test of tactical revision doesn't count as actual difficulty.

Does enemy AI have anything to do with it?

 

A massive amount of my complaints in 6th gen was how many trainers seemed to have their AI set to Roulette mode, including the GYM LEADERS THEMSELVES. I've had instances where even gym leaders pulled stupid stunts like using not-very-effective moves on a Pokemon when they clearly had other moves that could damage them effectively.


IUfb9Eg.png


#5 Mercurius

Mercurius

    Ars est celare artem

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,408 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Digital art, idealistic stories, MMOs, SRPGs, hunting games, FAAAAAAAAAAABULOUS-ness, and staying out of the social order.

Posted 16 December 2016 - 02:46 PM

I know of false difficulty, with one complaint I have being something that the fanbase in general makes fun of (Monster Hunter not having enemy HP bars) cause actually being able to tell when an enemy is about to go down is for scrubs. (there's also how I've always been kind of pissed off at fighting game moves that make you do a 360 with the analog stick because 90% of the time trying to do it won't actually make it work even in practice mode, but I think that's mostly just me.) But neither of those have anything to do with beefed up stats = "this shouldn't count as legitimately challenging."

 

A massive amount of my complaints in 6th gen was how many trainers seemed to have their AI set to Roulette mode, including the GYM LEADERS THEMSELVES. I've had instances where even gym leaders pulled stupid stunts like using not-very-effective moves on a Pokemon when they clearly had other moves that could damage them effectively.

I'm going to guess that roulette mode just means they pick moves at random from the pool they have to select from.

 

Now that I think about it in that way, a lot of turn-based combat in JRPGs is like that...although I suppose if you didn't do it like that a lot of people would just consider it predictable.

 

I suppose enemy AI does have to do with it, but at the same time, I can't really think of any enemy AI other than high difficulty fighting game opponents (which rarely ever have boosts to their values) that I've thought as making particularly smart decisions. Most of the time the level / combat instance design as a whole is what you're actually fighting against.


I believe in judgment of humans through their judgment of fiction, for nothing else tells better of their disposition freed from apprehension.


#6 Blue Leafeon

Blue Leafeon

    Mega Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 518 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 17 December 2016 - 12:32 AM

I'm going to guess that roulette mode just means they pick moves at random from the pool they have to select from.

Yeah, basically. I got the term from TV Tropes.

http://tvtropes.org/...Main/AIRoulette

 

I suppose enemy AI does have to do with it, but at the same time, I can't really think of any enemy AI other than high difficulty fighting game opponents (which rarely ever have boosts to their values) that I've thought as making particularly smart decisions. Most of the time the level / combat instance design as a whole is what you're actually fighting against.

I've seen my Roy amiibo pick up a Fairy Bottle in Smash and deliberately throw it off the stage since neither he nor I could use it. But yeah, high difficulty fighting game opponents. lol

 

I've seen Pokemon enemies do intelligent moves, but they're usually scripted to do so. There's an Ace Trainer couple in Su/Mo that has a really fast, weak Pokemon use After You on their extremely slow, hard-hitting partner and make them outspeed yours. >>


IUfb9Eg.png





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users