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Fate vs. free will


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#21 kirant

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:49 PM

What type of "god" are we talking about? That's a pretty important part. The God, in accordance to the Bible, has testable outcomes. Certain passages, even from the Latin roots (which I suggest you read instead of the butchered English ones), have claims we can test. The definition of god though is often a catchall term for supreme being because of the close association of the Biblical God and any supreme being. I don't think we have tests to conclusively prove or disprove a Deist supreme being as we haven't conclusively proven the starts of the universe. At least, not with testing yet.

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#22 Holy Kensai

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:53 PM

No god exists. Unless one defines God as a defense mechanism used to explain things people don't yet understand. Then yeah, those exist.
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#23 Rujio

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:08 AM

It would be really nice if any online discussion of religion could go more than one post before becoming hostile/condescending :/
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#24 bblues

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:13 AM

QUOTE (Rujio @ Feb 13 2013, 12:08 AM)
It would be really nice if any online discussion of religion could go more than one post before becoming hostile/condescending :/


That will never happen.

#25 Holy Kensai

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:18 AM

It went eighteen posts before someone turned it hostile.
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#26 Cero

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

Fate is true because everyone shares the same fate of death. No matter what we do, no matter what happens we will eventually die. All of our decisions in life lead up to the moment we die.

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#27 Mercurius

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

there's also this problem if anyone successfully obtains immortality

I believe in judgment of humans through their judgment of fiction, for nothing else tells better of their disposition freed from apprehension.


#28 arimibn

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

Kensai, personally I don't sense any hostility from Bacon's post. He just disagreed with you. He didn't call you by name or anything. It was actually what you said that seems a little...hostile to me. But from what I've seen you say in the past, I'm pretty sure you weren't actually being hostile. But even then, YOU told him to be quiet in a topic...about whether we believe in fate or not? Why does he have to be quiet simply because he doesn't believe what you believe?

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#29 kirant

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:39 AM

QUOTE (Holy Kensai @ Feb 12 2013, 04:53 PM)
No god exists. Unless one defines God as a defense mechanism used to explain things people don't yet understand. Then yeah, those exist.

In things people don't understand as of today, we can't conclusively state, we have no proof of either result.

The belief that there's definitively no god relies on a faith in the concept that science will prevail. Which is similar in belief blind faith in saying "god made it". Neither have real proof behind it yet (and the evidence around many of our physics that define universe creation are pretty sketchy if you give it a good read. It's actually a fascinating read, if they had actual proof of it). Cold cut saying one is true or not true based purely on historical results is a little tough. The best position I believe one should take is to be open minded and willing to accept anything that happens. One event seems more likely to me based on the fact that one requires more difficult logic to get to, but I wouldn't rule out the idea of the other being possible either.

Again, saying that one must be true without evidence is blind faith. Similar to the blind faith that can go with saying "[x] exists" without any proof either. Our science can be pretty bad. I think it'd be silly to go past whatever we can conclusively see and observe. Heck, not even that might be worth fully agreeing with if we move past usage for sending things into space. We can't even consolidate our physics formulae. We use quantum mechanics for some, classical physics for others, which sometimes yield weird results.

I wouldn't put too much stock into our concept of physics. And this is coming from a guy who's spent his entire first degree working with physics and chemistry.

QUOTE (Rujio @ Feb 12 2013, 05:08 PM)
It would be really nice if any online discussion of religion could go more than one post before becoming hostile/condescending :/

Entertainingly, Extra Credits just proved how poorly people react if they get called out on their attacking of anything with the terms "Religion", "God", or "Faith". It's amusing how they got to the point where they felt they needed to detract from video games and get into a fight with the internet of all things about religion. They abuse the term "faith" in ways they shouldn't, but it's a good piece (and a little bit of a wake up for the internet, which it needs every once in a while).

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#30 Scrimsax

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:17 AM

Oops. SHould've known this was going to descend into a religous debate. Calm down people. The purpose of that post wasn't to incite or call out peoples believes, it was just to have you reflect on free will vs. fate. I said what I believed, after a few hours of introspection and thought. I just advised that other people should do similar.

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#31 Bacon Hero

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:22 AM

To say again, God exists. I wasn't being hostile, as arim said. I'm just telling the truth. The meaning of the Jeremiah passage is that God gives us life, and without Him, we cant do anything. In the Romans passage, the "select" refers to all humanity. From the beginning, God wanted us to be with Him (the predestined part). He wants all of us to be with Him in the end. Again, not being hostile, just pointing out what those passages really mean.
Dang, I never thought I'd be posting in the maturity domain. But when it comes to God's existence and interpreting the bible, I can put in my 2 cents worth on that. Have a nice day and GO IRISH!!!!!
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#32 Mercurius

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:46 AM

QUOTE (Scrimsax @ Feb 12 2013, 08:17 PM)
Hatless, your sig makes me smile.

I know o:

QUOTE (Bacon Hero @ Feb 12 2013, 08:22 PM)
To say again, God exists. I wasn't being hostile, as arim said. I'm just telling the truth. The meaning of the Jeremiah passage is that...

...Well obviously God has to exist when the bible is used as the citation. >_>

derp misinterpreted

me is stupid

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#33 Golden Warrior

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

Hm... let me revise my answer. Neither and both. You:"Lolwut, Gold! That's not possible! Silly goose."

Hear me out. There is no concrete proof of either, yet I feel it is both. Let's say... there's a sign on the other side of a wall, it's there, that's predestined, it didn't have a choice. But, let's say you know the sign is there, you decide whether or not to read it, that's free will. Alternatively, you could read the sign due to being easily curious, or the opposite, which means that what Kensai said, isn't entirely untrue. Our past affects out future free will in a sense but it is still ours.

However, in reality... it all depends on our belief. Although I personally believe in God and the free will he gave us, I don't want to turn this into another religious argument.

Gold out.

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#34 Bacon Hero

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:10 AM

QUOTE
Although I personally believe in God and the free will he gave us, I don't want to turn this into another religious argument.


I second that, Gold. I don't want to make any more enemies than I already have, so I'm gonna stop. Goodbye maturity domain!!
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