16 replies to this topic

[Nice Middle]

Its story is far from being excellent. It is however acceptable, since it is a "fair", "correct" sequel to Marth's stories. I mean. Even Blazing Sword and Path of Radiance (which - I think I could tell without looking it up - probably received less awards than FE13), both had a better storyline. The characters are horrible, too. I mean, okay, they've got nice, funny personalities and stuff. But the folks from previous installments had better stuff for themselves, whether it's physical or psychological appearance. I think bringing most of them back as DLC/SpotPass content was also a terrible idea.

The "Pair Up" gameplay was a nice addition, but broke up the whole pleasure to see a map with its tiles occupated by ONE unit at a time. I mean, innovation is good, but it feels like it's way too much this time.

Also, the game takes too much time, whether it's the dialogues or battle scenes. I'm now obligated to skip battles and most of the support conversations, and simply speeding forward through the chapter conversations in order to not miss any part of the soundtrack. Making multiple files to collect each conversation is crazy as well. I've already given up on completing SSBB even though I'm just a short way from it, so I won't hurt my feelings trying to complete one game whose only one file has worn me out already. This time again, the Elibe and Tellius series win.

I'm not saying that I dislike Awakening. I'm enjoying it. But it's bad.

(Not mentioning Sacred Stones because I've never played it, and Shadow Dragon is kinda meh, I'm about to sell it soon)

[Rujio]

Yeah, there's a pretty large camp of people who like it less than you. The story is awful, the characters are flat, Pair Up breaks the game, the maps are repetitive, there's way too much pointless sexualization, the soundtrack really isn't that good, the DLC (other than Future Past, I've heard) is bad, some of the new official localizations we got are dumb (if you're going to make a point of removing Thracia's references, actually do it instead of half-assing it), the difficulty is either the new dumb fake stuff we're getting now or is just nonexistent, the world is horribly developed, the main protagonists and villains are a special brand of unacceptably awful horrendous terrible quality...

I mean, the gameplay follows the basic FE formula, so there's fun to be had, but all this game has over the other FE games are little streamlining bits - which partially are only helpful because of this game's faults. I shouldn't want to skip enemy phase because I should care what happens on enemy phase. Automatic restocking and such are nice additions, though. The interface is pretty solid, too. Way better than the SNES one.

[Snow]

Now I haven't play it and probably won't, but I think it did deserve its hype given that it was the first brand new FE game since RD, so 2008 I think? Anyway that made it important enough to be excited for IMO, if it didn't live up to the that hype then I think that a different problem.

[SmashedFish]

QUOTE (Rujio @ Jan 1 2014, 11:35 AM)

Automatic restocking and such are nice additions, though.

I hate to be the person who takes a whole post and chooses one point to disagree with, discrediting all other arguments in the post, but it's 1:34 and I wanted to go to bed before 12 tonight, so I'll leave some thoughts here and probably add more tomorrow.

Personally, I wish that auto-restocking had been kept to the menu to the menu that pops up when you select a character, rather than triggering every time you put weapons in supply. On my most recent run, around chapter 2 or 3 (on Lunatic, by the way), I wanted to reorganize my weapons, so I sent everything to supply. As an unintended result, my two Bronze Swords merged into one with full uses and one with about 10 uses. As I was trying to train some Sword ranks, that backfired notably.

This is probably a useless contribution to the subject of the post, so I apologize about that. I just wanted to point out the trivial inconvenience that that particular feature caused me as a negative point about Awakening, despite that my overall impression of the game is positive and that I feel that its hype was deserved.

[kirant]

Fire Emblem Awakening will, in my opinion, be a divisive game for fans...the point where it had to evolve to continue the series, but to a place many of the older fans are uncomfortable.

The game is designed to be more causal. If having a casual mode wasn't notable enough, then having game breaking skills, insane character scaling relative to enemies, an infinite exp Skinner Box, and overall broken characters will. This will really irk fans of old games because if the fact that you aren't require to prioritize experience and exposure of your less powerful units (see: Nino).

The game is also much lighter. Characters are more often caricatures than actual people and live off gags. I will forever argue that they accidentally created a real personality in Cordelia, but favoured using her "crush on Chrom" trait in many conversations instead of focusing on it (more on that in this link: http://lainsfirstlaw...tle-characters/ ). The story returns to the simpler story telling and it almost falls under "story for the sake of having a story", ala Pacific Rim.

The main thing to consider though is that if they kept their past style, I doubt they wouldn't have ever made another game. Intelligent Systems is dying. They halted the Advance War series about 6 years ago despite critical acllaim (to my dismay) and FE:A was intended to be their swan song. As the old saying goes, adapt or die. FE:A is an adaptation that sells more to the general market. And while casual players may like it, long term fans may find it harder to swallow. Be it lighter material, easier game, more fanservice-y orientation, or broken mechanics.

One thing you can't take away from it though is its ambition. Almost every possible support conversation is made.

[Fire Blazer]

QUOTE

Fire Emblem Awakening will, in my opinion, be a divisive game for fans...the point where it had to evolve to continue the series, but to a place many of the older fans are uncomfortable.

I agree with this

Rujio, for once I disagree with you. That 'camp' might be large but only in that they're vocal and that we're more likely to see them. If we look at it from a more general perspective, not the one of biased fans who have to compare it to their favorite parts of their favorite previous games and can never be pleased if we let our expectations and desires roam free, the 'camp' of people who dislike it is relatively small.

I think the storyline critique is way too harsh and doesn't take into account what Fire Emblem is and how the game was setup. Not taking in the intentions of the game and its circumstances is, in fact, a problem, because if you didn't do that, you could easily complain that puzzle games and most indie games are all freaking awful because they have little to absolutely no story and should therefore die in a hole (or the video game equivalent I guess--what would that be, get a game-breaking glitch?). I don't see why people expect such awesome Fire Emblem stories, none of the games had exceptional stories, some people liked FE7's characters and others liked FE9's plot but seriously compared to other games it's really nothing impressive, the stories are about on the level of Pokemon for me usually, I laugh at anyone who expects anymore.

This coming from the guy who did an episode on plot and how Awakening could improve a lot--I'd love it, but deep down I don't actually expect it to happen. For me it's more of a relative weakness, I like most people didn't find the gameplay horrid, I enjoyed the support conversations quite a bit (even if I don't care for the marriage part), I understand the fact that they wanted to focus on developing character interactions within the army and not character backgrounds, the world, or the antagonists. The DLC is DLC, it's optional and like most DLC it's a gimmick to make more money, I don't know who in their right mind has high expectations for that either lol.

I'm not saying your opinions are invalid or anything, simply trying to put into perspective that the opinions are only one small faction out of a larger sector, and that the game did in fact sell well and was critically acclaimed and it's not that literally everyone else who ever played the game is an idiot lol. Now, I doubt that a lot of people actually think that, but it's very much implied by certain posts. XP (And as for my arguments above which are seemingly unrelated, I'm only trying to explain how people might see things such that they aren't as disappointed by the game as you were--everyone looks for different things in games and we can like or dislike a game depending on those things, this holds true ESPECIALLY for established game series as opposed to new games where we aren't sure what to expect and we don't necessarily know 'what works' or what we like)

QUOTE

The main thing to consider though is that if they kept their past style, I doubt they wouldn't have ever made another game. Intelligent Systems is dying. They halted the Advance War series about 6 years ago despite critical acllaim (to my dismay) and FE:A was intended to be their swan song. As the old saying goes, adapt or die. FE:A is an adaptation that sells more to the general market. And while casual players may like it, long term fans may find it harder to swallow. Be it lighter material, easier game, more fanservice-y orientation, or broken mechanics. One thing you can't take away from it though is its ambition. Almost every possible support conversation is made.

wouldn't have ever? did you mean "would have ever"? *confused*

Assuming you did, I was actually saying this to Shu earlier, just not as eloquently, haha. I agree with the sentiment and that's why I am highly appreciative of Awakening, for me it seriously couldn't have been any better--the game sold well, got lots of attention, a lot of new fans got interested into the series... it brought the series back alive for heaven's sake. We're getting more Fire Emblem stuff now. Dude, what the hell would a Fire Emblem forum like us DO if Fire Emblem as a series died out. T_T

Seeing my favorite series die out sucks. Even if the game is heading in a new direction, I'm not going to turn my head away so easily. The most important thing is to keep supporting Nintendo/IS and hope that the next games continue to improve on each other. I think Awakening was ambitious and had a LOT of effort put into it, the localization included. I think they learned a lot and they tried to do a lot because they thought it'd be their last Fire Emblem game--a prospect that honestly, when I take a second to think about it, is freaking scary. I've been into Fire Emblem for over half my life and dedicated so much time to it. And for me, there's no other series that could even come close to filling in the void that FE dying out would leave. >_<

I'm getting as side-tracked as ever now, I realize, but I can't help but just double-check that people, when they're pointing out valid criticisms and sharing their opinions--as they should, totally shutting up all the time is hardly any fun--aren't forgetting that Awakening saved the series by appealing to all the other people BESIDES them, and that unless they absolutely hated Awakening so much that they traded in the game right away or started protesting or some shit, they should be happy about Awakening. Hate awakening, fine, but some haters (not even necessarily you guys but just in general some people seriously ***** too much--you guys just made a couple posts XD) need to cut it some slack... the hype was, in my opinion, deserved, I honestly don't think it's an overrated game (...okay maybe slightly, I'll admit I was too biased at first because I hadn't truly enjoyed an FE game since FE9--FE12 never got an official release so it wasn't the same, even if the game was great), and if it is, well hell, I'm sure as heck glad it was overrated as much as it was or the Fire Emblem series would be

*sunglasses*

burned out

...

YEEEEEAAAAAAHHH-*shot*

[Rujio]

QUOTE (Blazer @ Jan 3 2014, 02:00 AM)

Rujio, for once I disagree with you. That 'camp' might be large but only in that they're vocal and that we're more likely to see them. If we look at it from a more general perspective, not the one of biased fans who have to compare it to their favorite parts of their favorite previous games and can never be pleased if we let our expectations and desires roam free, the 'camp' of people who dislike it is relatively small.

I didn't mean that a bunch of people disliked the game, but rather that a lot of the fanbase isn't super enthralled with it. Knowing that this game saved the series, I wouldn't take it back, but if this is how the series had gone out, I would have been pretty livid.

QUOTE

I think the storyline critique is way too harsh and doesn't take into account what Fire Emblem is and how the game was setup. Not taking in the intentions of the game and its circumstances is, in fact, a problem, because if you didn't do that, you could easily complain that puzzle games and most indie games are all freaking awful because they have little to absolutely no story and should therefore die in a hole (or the video game equivalent I guess--what would that be, get a game-breaking glitch?). I don't see why people expect such awesome Fire Emblem stories, none of the games had exceptional stories, some people liked FE7's characters and others liked FE9's plot but seriously compared to other games it's really nothing impressive, the stories are about on the level of Pokemon for me usually, I laugh at anyone who expects anymore.

The thing is that Awakening's story has no redeeming qualities. A minimalist story can be done well - consider that what FE11 has is very good - but FE13's is a mess and you can tell that it's just an excuse for the action. It would have been far better had it been minimalist instead of faking its way through. It's not just the story that's bad, too. Every plot important character (bar maybe Gangrel) did nothing to improve the story over us being given something 100% generic and vague.

Compare that to previous Fire Emblem games. No, they've never been great, but they have potential there. I can sell the Jugdral story as something great. I can outline Micaiah and she is a fascinating character. I can talk about the GBA games' brilliant execution of tragic villains. In the end, mostly they're mediocre, yes, but there's more to them than "eh, we should probably have a reason for a boat fight."

QUOTE

The DLC is DLC, it's optional and like most DLC it's a gimmick to make more money, I don't know who in their right mind has high expectations for that either lol.

The problem with the DLC is that it's a better game without it. By "bad" I mean "I'd pay money to get this out of my game" bad for much of it.

[Fire Blazer]

Fair enough, as for the DLC I dunno I have mixed feelings haha, on one end I feel like it'll be another 2 years before I beat it all, I'm not really interested, and I feel like my characters will always be outclassed by characters with DLC skills/boosts/whatever, but on the other hand we get some throwbacks to old games and some of the DLC is a little fun and it's extra content in a game... I really am somewhere in the middle haha, a part of me says "I'd have hated to miss out on more FE content--I just can't get enough", and another part says "the game really DIDN'T need it and the DLC really wasn't that great, barring maybe Future Past which I'll never know because I haven't beaten it and apparently I CAN get enough since I don't feel compelled to".

[Bobryk]

DLC is extra content so I feel like it should be taken away from the equation when gauging if a game is good or not. It's a "don't like it? Don't buy it" sort of thing, imo. That's like saying you like Skyrim but now think it's a bad game because the DLC you downloaded isn't very good. Saying you'd pay money to take it out of the game is pretty extreme.

Personally, I bought all of the DLC to support IS/Nintendo because I like the company(ies) and want them to do well. Also, when you're drowning in student loans, an extra $60 kinda goes unnoticed XD.

Were all of them worth it? Not a chance. The maps that gave you extra skills and classes along with the legacy characters were worth something, but the ones without? GTFO. There are a few gems, though, eg Future Past, Apotheosis, etc. (I bought but haven't actually touched the Scramble maps.)

[kirant]

QUOTE (Blazer @ Jan 3 2014, 02:00 AM)

I think the storyline critique is way too harsh and doesn't take into account what Fire Emblem is and how the game was setup. Not taking in the intentions of the game and its circumstances is, in fact, a problem, because if you didn't do that, you could easily complain that puzzle games and most indie games are all freaking awful because they have little to absolutely no story and should therefore die in a hole (or the video game equivalent I guess--what would that be, get a game-breaking glitch?). I don't see why people expect such awesome Fire Emblem stories, none of the games had exceptional stories, some people liked FE7's characters and others liked FE9's plot but seriously compared to other games it's really nothing impressive, the stories are about on the level of Pokemon for me usually, I laugh at anyone who expects anymore.

I don't think people expect more, but that will influence ratings (as, at one point, this was argued as "game of the year" material. It's a solid game, but it just isn't THAT high tier IMO). Just because Fire Emblem has a, for the sake of argument, ceiling of 8/10 in story doesn't mean that it shouldn't be compared to other games in that manner. Everything has to be incorporated when determining a game's quality at a fair and equal level. And just because you expect something doesn't mean you should go nice on it. For example, just because I expect Pacific Rim's story to be an excuse plot doesn't mean I should be able to blast it for being poor relative to other movies and not give it a major award in storytelling for that reason.

Against other FE games, it may also be considered somewhat lacking. No FE game is outstanding in this aspect because you can only use 4-5 characters typically, but Fire Emblem hit some interesting notes on the GC/Wii games because of grey moral aspects (ex - actions akin to genocide) and this is undoubtedly a step back from that. Also, the lack of influence of that last decision really took out the only real "bite" the story had for player impact.

QUOTE (Blazer @ Jan 3 2014, 02:00 AM)

wouldn't have ever? did you mean "would have ever"? *confused*

Shh. It's a miracle I get away with so few errors when I don't proofread.

QUOTE (Blazer @ Jan 3 2014, 02:00 AM)

Dude, what the hell would a Fire Emblem forum like us DO if Fire Emblem as a series died out. T_T

Wait until I finish making characters for an FE hack so detailed that 90% of what I come up with will not be relevant? Then start asking for graphics help?

[Mercurius]

QUOTE

but Fire Emblem hit some interesting notes on the GC/Wii games because of grey moral aspects (ex - actions akin to genocide) and this is undoubtedly a step back from that.

wasn't there that one fireship thing?

anyway tbh I wasn't really paying that much attention while playing awakening other than when it involved characters I like looking at so i'm not really sure of many its flaws (or whats good about it other than some gameplay things) but there's something weird i've noticed about it

i've replayed FE6, FE7, FE8, and FE10 over like, 6 times now and i'm not really averse to doing it again(I am averse to replaying FE12 but that's only really because of lag issues, same goes for FE9, though my new computer can probably handle it if the emulator works well enough) but one thing I know for sure is that I don't really feel like replaying Awakening again...and I don't think it has something to do with flat characters given how much people talk about FE6's characters being the driest(besides I tend to skip the story scenes after enough replays.)

[kirant]

QUOTE (Tenebrae Candidae @ Jan 4 2014, 12:37 PM)

wasn't there that one fireship thing?

Not played at the level of morals though. The incidents played out by Micaiah are intentionally shown as villainous, but pulled by a heroic character.

[arimibn]

Well what about

SPOILER (Click Here To Hide/Show Text)

how your character essentially decides to destroy the future in exchange for immortality despite being a heroic character? If I remember, Avatar is exactly the same in the other timeline, except that he CHOSE the dark path, despite being a heroic character. That seems like the same thing to me. Lol

Then ya got Yen'Fay who basically does exactly what Micaiah did but on a much smaller scale. He joined Walhart and began to cut down innocents to save his sister and was portrayed as villainous, despite not actually being a villain.

[QUOTE=Nice Middle,Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM]The "Pair Up" gameplay was a nice addition, but broke up the whole pleasure to see a map with its tiles occupated by ONE unit at a time. I mean, innovation is good, but it feels like it's way too much this time.[/QUOTE]

I honestly see this as a more "personal preference" thing. I don't think I've ever felt a joy from seeing one unit at a time on a tile.

[QUOTE=Nice Middle,Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM] The characters are horrible, too.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with this. The characters in Awakening are the same types of characters that have been used in Fire Emblem games for years now. Heck, one of the characters is literally from a previous game. You can't really say Awakening's characters were horrible unless you're saying that Fire Emblem's characters in general are horrible.

And if you are saying that they're horrible, then please at least give a reason. You literally said that the characters are horrible, and gave no reason to support this other than that characters from previous games had more going for them. Which I also disagree with, because I find I can tell what Awakening's characters' personalities are like a LOT better than some characters from previous games.

Because let's be honest. In most of the previous games, if they weren't the main characters...what did you really get told about them? Especially if you only did one playthrough? Don't sit here and tell me you know anything about the Dawn Brigade. All of which are major characters that we are told close to NOTHING about.

Seriously think about that. Can you tell me ANYTHING about who Nolan is? Or even Edward and Leonardo? The only information you get on these characters isn't even from the story. It's from the little character description thing that you can view at the base.

[QUOTE=Nice Middle,Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM]Also, the game takes too much time, whether it's the dialogues or battle scenes.[QUOTE]

I both agree with this, and disagree with it. I agree with this because I do feel that things can be a bit slow at times. I think this is a moot point though because ALL Fire Emblem games I've played have felt like that at some point.

[QUOTE=Nice Middle,Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM]I'm now obligated to skip battles and most of the support conversations, and simply speeding forward through the chapter conversations in order to not miss any part of the soundtrack.[/QUOTE]

You are in no way obligated to. And I personally think the only reason why everyone skips the enemy phase is because they can. You're telling me you've NEVER used the fast forward tool on GBA emulators before?

I find myself able to thoroughly enjoy most of the chapter conversations simply because 9/10 times they give me motivation to do the chapter. Same with all the other games. 9/10 times the dialogue made me WANT to do the chapter. Gangrel just killed Chrom's sister? IMA KILL THAT SONABICH PERSONALLY. Oh, you're the guy who tried to kill Lyn's Granpa? TIME TO DIE PUNK. If I don't kill you, then the fate of all my buddies is sealed? Well then, I guess I have to take you down. I find this is amplified in Awakening for the same reason that it was amplified in Blazing Sword. I'm actually one of the characters.

[QUOTE=Nice Middle,Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM]Making multiple files to collect each conversation is crazy as well. I've already given up on completing SSBB even though I'm just a short way from it, so I won't hurt my feelings trying to complete one game whose only one file has worn me out already. This time again, the Elibe and Tellius series win.[/QUOTE]

Why do I think this is a moot point? Can you name a single Fire Emblem game where you DIDN'T have to make multiple files to get all the support conversations? This one actually requires the LEAST amount of files, as you can potentially get almost all of them on a single playthrough. And the rest on another.

In the GBA games, a unit had a max of 5 support conversations per playthrough.

Awakening on the other hand? Dude. I have an A rank support with almost every single unit on my team.

[QUOTE=Nice Middle,Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM] This time again, the Elibe and Tellius series win.[/QUOTE]

This part in particular. Are you serious dude? I've gone through more than 20 FE10 Playthroughs and I STILL have not seen all the bonus conversations and cutscenes in game. I refuse to refer to a walkthrough. XD I have 12 Radiant Dawn save files on my Wii for crying out loud. Lol

Personally I think FE Awakening did deserve its hype. I mean come on, the first Fire Emblem game in HOW many years? I think the problem is simply that it didn't live up to the hype for a lot of people. I mean seriously dude. Do you even REALIZE how many people got a 3DS just to play Awakening? Do you not remember how long this game was Sold Out for? It was darn near IMPOSSIBLE to find a physical copy of this game. I got lucky and happened to get the LAST COPY of Awakening in my whole state.

But considering that this was what it was, I think it was completely reasonable for people to be excited.

Think about it. If Michael Jackson was to come back from the dead for one last performance in a year, don't you think it would be MASSIVELY overhyped? But considering what it is, it's perfectly deserving of the hype. But considering just how high expectations are, there is absolutely NO WAY that it could live up to the hype for everyone.

And to a lot of Fire Emblem fans, that's what Awakening's announcement was. Their favorite game series was coming back for one last time. But considering that it was a new Fire Emblem game, it's perfectly natural for people to be hyped for it. Think about it.

America hadn't seen a new Fire Emblem game since Shadow Dragon.

Mix that with the mention that characters from PREVIOUS Fire Emblem games are going to make an appearance? Yes. For something like that, it's perfectly reasonable for there to be a LOT of hype. Are you telling me you weren't excited when Awakening was announced?

Now if you said that Awakening didn't live up to its hype, then I'd agree with you. Because quite frankly, there was no possible way it could live up to it. But that it didn't DESERVE its hype? Come on man. Name one time a successful series gets a sequel announced and fans didn't get excited for it.

[kirant]

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 01:42 AM)

Well what about SPOILER (Click Here To Hide/Show Text) how your character essentially decides to destroy the future in exchange for immortality despite being a heroic character? If I remember, Avatar is exactly the same in the other timeline, except that he CHOSE the dark path, despite being a heroic character. That seems like the same thing to me. Lol Then ya got Yen'Fay who basically does exactly what Micaiah did but on a much smaller scale. He joined Walhart and began to cut down innocents to save his sister and was portrayed as villainous, despite not actually being a villain.

Spoilered content (Click Here To Hide/Show Text)

My understanding was that the avatar went over the despair event horizon and just forfeited himself to villain guy after killing Chrom. What alters it in the current timeline is that the avatar knew what he was going to do going in and held back on Chrom.

As per the second part, Yen'Fay's story is less impactful because of his villain status. Anti-villains of his variety, as they are known, are more common. Interesting (though somewhat poorly done in Yen'Fay's case as you never really develop a real hatred of him), but common.

What was unique about the other was that it's rare you see your protagonist (the guy you're supposed to, in theory, be cheering for) committing terrible acts. Between that and her seemingly intended status as a canon Mary Sue (half-human, all loving, white hair, purple motif, holy magic...you name it, she's pretty much got it) and it becomes quite an intriguing character and series of events.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 01:42 AM)

I disagree with this. The characters in Awakening are the same types of characters that have been used in Fire Emblem games for years now. Heck, one of the characters is literally from a previous game. You can't really say Awakening's characters were horrible unless you're saying that Fire Emblem's characters in general are horrible.

FE:A's characters were more straight forward I think the is best way to put it.

Every character typically focuses on their standout trait. Inigo will hit on the female character in the vicinity. Tharja is crazy. Henry has a weird outlook on life. Miriel is pretty much a researcher nerd. This varies a bit from some of the other games. While some exist, they don't always do that. The one that stands out to me is Fiora's conversations from FE7. She plays very similar to a straight forward soldier in some aspects, but then you get some curve balls. The biggest oddity in my mind without more research is her supports with Kent and the implied sex that's carried along with it...given their fairly straight up moral codes. Turns out, put two mirror characters in a room together and everything that's the same about them goes out the door .

Now, of course, this goes out the window with the DLC added in (specifically the Scramble and Future Past maps). The depth for some of these characters (especially Inigo) go through the roof once the dev team got more time. But these games didn't get the benefit of DLC. It almost feels like an incomplete game design before this is added in.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 01:42 AM)

Gangrel just killed Chrom's sister? IMA KILL THAT SONABICH PERSONALLY. Oh, you're  the guy who tried to kill Lyn's Granpa? TIME TO DIE PUNK. If I don't kill you, then the fate of all my buddies is sealed? Well then, I guess I have to take you down. I find this is amplified in Awakening for the same reason that it was amplified in Blazing Sword. I'm actually one of the characters.

I had a bit of the opposite effect. The excuses felt forced.

The emotionally involved chapters for me in Fire Emblem were...well, few ever. Actually, one of the best for me probably were (screw spoilers. If you haven't played it by now, you'll likely know this already) the duel against Kratos and final battle against Mithos in Tales of Symphonia. Those were more about ideological clashes and less about the plain black and white senses of morality brought about in the above.

I guess the question is how you stand on Black/White morality stories. FE:A is plainly black and white. If that appeals to you, it's good. If something closer to Braid is your alley, FE:A will have lacklustre story telling.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 01:42 AM)

Do you not remember how long this game was Sold Out for? It was darn near IMPOSSIBLE to find a physical copy of this game. I got lucky and happened to get the LAST COPY of Awakening in my whole state.

I had no problems. It may vary from location to location since all I did was, 2 days after release, walk up, ask for a copy, and walk out of the store.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 01:42 AM)

Their favorite game series was coming back for one last time.

Wasn't known at that time IIRC. All that was released was that FE was doing new content again and that their remakes were generally poorly received.

It was after the major financial success in NA that they disclosed that was intended to be their swan song.

[arimibn]

I dunno why, but I've always enjoyed having discussions with you, kirant. XD You're just so...straightforward and polite at the same time. XD

QUOTE (kirant @ Jan 5 2014, 05:12 AM)

Spoilered content (Click Here To Hide/Show Text) My understanding was that the avatar went over the despair event horizon and just forfeited himself to villain guy after killing Chrom.  What alters it in the current timeline is that the avatar knew what he was going to do going in and held back on Chrom. As per the second part, Yen'Fay's story is less impactful because of his villain status.  Anti-villains of his variety, as they are known, are more common.  Interesting (though somewhat poorly done in Yen'Fay's case as you never really develop a real hatred of him), but common.  What was unique about the other was that it's rare you see your protagonist (the guy you're supposed to, in theory, be cheering for) committing terrible acts.  Between that and her seemingly intended status as a canon Mary Sue (half-human, all loving, white hair, purple motif, holy magic...you name it, she's pretty much got it) and it becomes quite an intriguing character and series of events.

Spoiler (Click Here To Hide/Show Text)

That's why I mentioned the Avatar first. He's essentially supposed to be the guy you're cheering for. And in the alternate timeline. Everything was almost EXACTLY the same in the other timeline. He was the exact same guy. Only differences in the other timeline. Lucina wasn't there, Basilio was actually dead instead of thought to be dead, and Chrom actually died. I honestly don't think these three are really such huge factors that it would make such a paragon of goodness willfully decide to forsake his friends and family for immortality. This is amplified when you find out in Future Past that he had the exact same personality as the current one.

I think this is on the scale of Micaiah because I consider the Avatar to be a Mary-Sue. What made me accuse him of being a sue? Look at his support conversations with Emeryn...Emmeryn...? Why can't I remember how that's spelled? XD ET HEM. My point is that she manages to remember the Avatar, who she'd only really talked to ONCE at this point over her blood related brother and sister.

And you also have to remember that Tiki compares Avatar to Marth. Frikkin MARTH. Could YOU imagine MARTH willingly choosing to KILL ALL HIS FRIENDS?

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FE:A's characters were more straight forward I think the is best way to put it. Every character typically focuses on their standout trait.  Inigo will hit on the female character in the vicinity.  Tharja is crazy.  Henry has a weird outlook on life.  Miriel is pretty much a researcher nerd.  This varies a bit from some of the other games.  While some exist, they don't always do that.  The one that stands out to me is Fiora's conversations from FE7.  She plays very similar to a straight forward soldier in some aspects, but then you get some curve balls.  The biggest oddity in my mind without more research is her supports with Kent and the implied sex that's carried along with it...given their fairly straight up moral codes.  Turns out, put two mirror characters in a room together and everything that's the same about them goes out the door . Now, of course, this goes out the window with the DLC added in (specifically the Scramble and Future Past maps).  The depth for some of these characters (especially Inigo) go through the roof once the dev team got more time.  But these games didn't get the benefit of DLC.  It almost feels like an incomplete game design before this is added in.

See this is why I consider it a moot point. All that is UNTRUE. There are several times where Tharja completely disproves that whole crazy killer lady and shows that she's just a normal lady. Several times in the story where she shows herself to be genuinely caring without seeming like a crazy lady. And no, I'm not talking about during DLC. This is just stuff gathered from support conversations.

Inigo has shown that he doesn't just hit on every woman he sees. Owain isn't always theatrical. Miriel? Nope. You're right. She is a STRAIGHT UP NERD. XD Lucina isn't always so stern and serious. My biggest example of this is during her support conversations with (sister)Cynthia. And how Lucina, essentially the Future Trunks of Fire Emblem, screams and freaks out...over...wait for it...a flying bug. By far the most hilarious support conversation in the game. Lucina, who fought DEMONS AND A DRAGON on a regular basis, freaked out over a bug. XD

The thing I feel happens with Awakening is that there's simply so many support conversations that it really wouldn't make sense for the characters to NOT show multiple aspects of their personality.

Now don't lie to me and tell me you've seen every support conversation. Lol And even then, I wouldn't expect you to. But the point is that it's there WITHOUT DLC. And you can't make the excuse that you have to make an effort to get it unless you're also using that excuse for other games in the series.

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I had no problems.  It may vary from location to location since all I did was, 2 days after release, walk up, ask for a copy, and walk out of the store.

...Don't you like...not live in the US? XD Moot point buddy. Even then, I was pointing out the situation in America. And even then, simply because you were able to get a copy doesn't mean anything. You could have very well just gotten very lucky. I know how rare the game was because I went to like 10 different stores trying to find it, and it was sold out at ALL of them. It got to the point that one store told me that it would be hard to find them because the WAREHOUSES didn't even have any copies left.

The fact that YOU didn't have a problem getting a copy doesn't really mean anything. If a dude plays the lottery for the first time and wins, that doesn't mean that it's easy to win the lottery.

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Wasn't known at that time IIRC.  All that was released was that FE was doing new content again and that their remakes were generally poorly received. It was after the major financial success in NA that they disclosed that was intended to be their swan song.

Then just change my analogy a bit. Say Michael Jackson was just coming back from the dead. It would still be massively overhyped. You can't deny that it was the first Fire Emblem game since Shadow Dragon. Fans are going to get excited about something like that.

[Mercurius]

I also had issues getting a copy for a few weeks iirc

though there was always the digital copy for people who felt like getting that instead

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Can you name a single Fire Emblem game where you DIDN'T have to make multiple files to get all the support conversations?

the ones that don't have support conversations?

<.<

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And how Lucina, essentially the Future Trunks of Fire Emblem, screams and freaks out...over...wait for it...a flying bug.

for the record

it was a HUGE bug

[kirant]

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

Spoiler (Click Here To Hide/Show Text) That's why I mentioned the Avatar first. He's essentially supposed to be the guy you're cheering for. And in the alternate timeline. Everything was almost EXACTLY the same in the other timeline. He was the exact same guy. Only differences in the other timeline. Lucina wasn't there, Basilio was actually dead instead of thought to be dead, and Chrom actually died. I honestly don't think these three are really such huge factors that it would make such a paragon of goodness willfully decide to forsake his friends and family for immortality. This is amplified when you find out in Future Past that he had the exact same personality as the current one. I think this is on the scale of Micaiah because I consider the Avatar to be a Mary-Sue. What made me accuse him of being a sue? Look at his support conversations with Emeryn...Emmeryn...? Why can't I remember how that's spelled? XD ET HEM. My point is that she manages to remember the Avatar, who she'd only really talked to ONCE at this point over her blood related brother and sister. And you also have to remember that Tiki compares Avatar to Marth. Frikkin MARTH. Could YOU imagine MARTH willingly choosing to KILL ALL HIS FRIENDS?

Why do I have to put in a spoiler message? (Click Here To Hide/Show Text)

You see though, I can't see those as intentional acts with a rational mind in place. It seems more of an act of "oh god, just get me out of here" than an intentionally evil or selfish act that contradicts their nearly non-existent personality. Maybe it's not fair of me to assume he jumped over into despair and accepted whatever was being sold to him, but it does seem to imply that...especially since he/she just got possessed into killing his/her best friend and possibly husband. Also, IIRC, basically he/she just doesn't fight the mind control mechanics after that in that storyline.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

See this is why I consider it a moot point. All that is UNTRUE. There are several times where Tharja completely disproves that whole crazy killer lady and shows that she's just a normal lady. Several times in the story where she shows herself to be genuinely caring without seeming like a crazy lady. And no, I'm not talking about during DLC. This is just stuff gathered from support conversations.

I think though that the number of times I recall this is on the order of damn near impossible to find. The only ones off the top of my head are her showing any level of concern for Noire (such as telling her that she needs "no sorcerer's bauble" (paraphrased) from her bad future self to be a fighter) and...well, that's pretty much it. Maybe lying to Nowi (poorly) about not finding her parents qualifies.

Part of the problem is that Intelligent Systems didn't scale the surprises to the amount of text they wrote. They were extremely ambitious in writing virtually any support you want (unless you're Sumia in which case, you're attempting to be sold to Chrom), but didn't adjust the amount of interesting content.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

Inigo has shown that he doesn't just hit on every woman he sees.

I...quite honestly cant remember an instance of this. It even dominates his conversations with males.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

Owain isn't always theatrical.

Owain was better done than the rest of the characters. Probably 4th in interesting personalities (My list likely would fall Cordelia, Severa, Gregor, then Owain).

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

Lucina isn't always so stern and serious. My biggest example of this is during her support conversations with (sister)Cynthia. And how Lucina, essentially the Future Trunks of Fire Emblem, screams and freaks out...over...wait for it...a flying bug.

I think that exists with any sibling.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

The thing I feel happens with Awakening is that there's simply so many support conversations that it really wouldn't make sense for the characters to NOT show multiple aspects of their personality.

That's the expectation. The reality I found was that they tend to swing more to their character quirks more often than not. Maybe once or twice they'll deviate from expectation activities...which is why I love coming back to Cordelia as an example of an understated, but probably more effectively developed, character (even if it seemingly occurred by accident). There are specific actions which are unexpected and unusual, very much contradictory to people describing her as a redheaded Barbie doll. A-ranked conversation with Avatar (specifically, what the Avatar deduces about her personality), beach sequence Avatar...married or unmarried (one reflects her self-esteem issues, the other her unusual assertiveness), a support conversation with Virion (describes asking for help as "having lost", reflecting a competitive nature), and pretty much her entire set of conversations with Stahl (self-esteem issues and perfectionist nature) all push past the basic overly hard working soldier personality they started her with.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

Now don't lie to me and tell me you've seen every support conversation. Lol And even then, I wouldn't expect you to. But the point is that it's there WITHOUT DLC. And you can't make the excuse that you have to make an effort to get it unless you're also using that excuse for other games in the series.

Actually, I pretty much have. I pretty much ground out a whole lot of them for my own research purposes and there's a YouTube channel for the ones I missed. None of that is a lie by the way.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

...Don't you like...not live in the US?

My avatar is of retired goaltender Miikka Kiprusoff of the Calgary Flames...a team in Calgary, Alberta. One guess where I live.

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

And even then, simply because you were able to get a copy doesn't mean anything. You could have very well just gotten very lucky. I know how rare the game was because I went to like 10 different stores trying to find it, and it was sold out at ALL of them.

This is still trial by personal example in your case as well though. My experience is as relevant as your experience in finding a game. This is why it's typically not used as an unless we get into statistically relevant categories (such as polling an entire nation).

QUOTE (arimibn @ Jan 5 2014, 08:48 AM)

Then just change my analogy a bit. Say Michael Jackson was just coming back from the dead. It would still be massively overhyped. You can't deny that it was the first Fire Emblem game since Shadow Dragon. Fans are going to get excited about something like that.

Your analogy is a bit unfair in the sense that we didn't know Jackson was going to come back from the dead as we expected him to stay buried. In comparing to FE's hype, we could carry that to a game like Fallout or X-COM in which, indeed, there was a fever pitch for long considered dead, but popular, franchises.

I'm a bit more of a sports guy, so here's my analogy: Let's say the [City] [Team Name] is in a league where you only draft one player a year. They have a track record of, when drafting, doing well with their players. The last couple years, they had traded away the right to this pick to get older, veteran players who underperformed. This year, they draft. The hype on that player, in my opinion, is the same as the hype that should occur when Fire Emblem Awakening was released.