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Fates' Seemingly Poor Localization


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#1 Fire Blazer

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 01:52 AM

CbB-yIhXEAAf9oi.jpg

 

Source: https://twitter.com/...197524356730883

 

So, what do you think?

 

My quick thoughts: this stinks, but the original was pretty lame too, and I'm not too excited about the story or characters in the first place, so I'm not butthurt over this in the least. It's basically taking trash and making it trashier lol. Honestly, Fates' when it was trying to be serious was a joke for the wrong reasons, so it being somewhat cheesy/cartoony/dumb to start with probably fits it more. In that sense, it's not so bad a change, but I get why people are upset. If it went from like a 4/10 to a 2/10, that's still a drop, and it could be considered an insult or something... not to mention there are people who just hate liberal localization changes, so yeah.

 

Still, curious what ya'll think


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#2 acceptance

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 02:23 AM

Rrrg rrgh rrrrrr rrrrgrrgh rgh

That's dragon for "That was fuckin stupid." Lol
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#3 kirant

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 02:41 AM

Well, I think that might be enough for me to not buy the game at all.

 

First thing's first though: What meme?  I honestly have zero clue what we're talking about. 

 

Second, Fates has always been balancing on a knife's edge for me.  I was lukewarm to the way they handled Awakening as a narrative and this sounds like things just took a nosedive in the category I was hoping they'd at least not suck terribly at.  Goddamn, the localization did a lot to strain those issues even further.

 

I actually don't mind liberal translations.  It has to go in a specific direction though.  A famous example to me is still Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.  They took what's a fairly dark game in the original script (the Japanese version, not released until the days of 3DS, and the EU version were off the original writing) and brought it back into the Advance Wars semi-serious, semi-humorous tone.  Silly "Tactics" sections, some pretty funny dialogue, and this:

 

(Dialogue before: 2500 Feet! 2000 Feet! 1500 Feet!)

 

152-capture_03012013_113629.png

 

It has clear direction from the otherwise generic NPC.  It eases the tension and continues to push the notion of this world being kind of silly.

 

I could handle Awakening's.  It was clear they wanted a less contextual narrative.  Dialogue changed to a more contemporary style of speech and focused often on the more trivial matters.  It primarily focused on not keeping with the "old time" dialogue for the most part.  If memory serves, it lapses into it on rare occasion but primarily keeps it out of the FE7 type dialogue. 

 

By comparisons, it sounds like Fates' is all over the map.  It really does sound like nobody oversaw the development and two different groups decided to put their own take on things.  One wanted to redo Awakening, the other the old GBA Fire Emblems.

 

Between that, the lack of balanced gameplay, the lack of innovations, and the fairly atrocious way they've dealt with their novel concept (two campaigns), I think I'm out.  50-60 bucks (Canadian price for new handheld games) is a bit much for something that sounds that bad, even if it is Fire Emblem.

 

Edit - Having read all the characters in the game now, it's clear that IS can still write.  Kind of.  I mean, it's hit and miss, miss, miss, miss, miss...but they occasionally get some really interesting characters.  No clue how the translation will handle it, but Flora with well written dialogue seems like a character you'd be hard pressed to not like...which, honestly, makes the currently listed bungles of the translation team worse as the base material is probably not terrible and it reflects worse on the translating team if their intentional changes in dialogue weaken the writing.


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#4 Mig64

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 02:51 AM

You know, this makes me miss the days when problems with Fire Emblem localization were just on the same level as Nergal saying "Quintessence?" instead of "Aenir?".



#5 kirant

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 03:02 AM

You know, this makes me miss the days when problems with Fire Emblem localization were just on the same level as Nergal saying "Quintessence?" instead of "Aenir?".

That reminds me of when the FE fans freaked when Mamkutes became Manakete. 


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#6 Mercurius

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 06:04 AM

I wish I was around for when we freaked over Mamkutes becoming Manakete.

 

On topic...I don't expect much from them after I saw the name changes. (but do we have JP audio? please tell me we have JP audio)

 

http://www.polygon.c...western-release

 

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

I wonder if there's a mute voice function in the options. That's what I did for Rune Factory 4.


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#7 Blue Leafeon

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 11:57 AM

Is the game even trying to taking itself seriously at this point?

 

It seems to be so bad that I'm actually hoping it'll cross over into "so bad, it's hilarious" just so that I don't end up busting my forehead on the desk out of pure intolerance for the stupidity. I don't want the series to die but at the same time, I would really like it if they fired whatever writers they have now and go get their old ones back.


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#8 ^Leo^

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 08:32 PM

i think it's just that the reaction to awakening was so explosive that they had no choice but to go further with it. as sad as it is for those of us who love the series for what it used to be, the essence of FE may be completely changing over the next few releases. i don't want the series to die either, but i also don't want it to be reddit fodder for the rest of the foreseeable future. put another way if Fates is just a big as awakening then that's what IS is going to keep giving us. 



#9 kirant

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:18 PM

i think it's just that the reaction to awakening was so explosive that they had no choice but to go further with it.

I don't think they went further with it though...if anything, they took a half-hearted step back to the old dialogue and decided to stop halfway through.  The company has to pick a lane and stay in it.  This is the biggest issue with the development I think...they wanted to cater to their older fans with some more "aged" dialogue but also wanted to keep the modern tone of Awakening as they believe this one of the biggest factors which sold it.  What comes out is, by all accounts so far, a mess.

 

put another way if Fates is just a big as awakening then that's what IS is going to keep giving us. 

I can understand the change...FE had a string of failures and couldn't see a future for the franchise.  Simply put, the old Fire Emblems were far too niche to live off of.  Nintendo was perfectly ready to cut ties with the franchise due to its declining returns.  I'm more than willing to be that "play it safe" is currently the motto for IS and it shows in the Japanese releases...only minor tinkering occurred with the game.

 

Money is loud.  It's why we can all talk crap about the Transformers movie franchise yet it survives.  Though I will admit that this might be changing...Deadpool pretty much got green lit based off the response to their released two minute clip.  But still...at the moment, "doing it for the art" and making the niche things that we enjoy is something I think fans will need to work on.  Which is why I'm glad there are communities like this.  People want to make their own imprint on the franchise, present a unique take...and more.  I can't say I'm a fan of GhebFE but it's nice to see that someone put the tools together to allow a comedy Fire Emblem.  Similarly, whichever decade I finally finish hopefully means that I've put forth a unique project as well.  Something you can't get in the base package.

 

I guess I'm saying that IS needs to listen to its parent company and to them, money talks.  It's hard to fault them for being conservative after seeing that ultimatum for Awakening.


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#10 ^Leo^

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 02:09 AM

i understand the change too which is why i'm not being vocal with my disagreements nearly as much as some other people have been. i just wish it hadn't been such a drastic change between new mystery of the emblem and awakening were massive. and even if you ignore 12 as it's a remake, the differences between radiant dawn and awakening are even more extreme. i think that moving from awakening to fates is going to be much less of a shock for me, so i'll be able to thouroughly enjoy playing for awhile though.

 

back on topic: i can ignore poor dialogue for great gameplay. i'm gonna go into complete denial mode because this is a fire emblem game and try my best to enjoy playing it XD



#11 Fire Blazer

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 06:02 AM

Rrrg rrgh rrrrrr rrrrgrrgh rgh

That's dragon for "That was fuckin stupid." Lol

GOT'EM hahahaha seriously tho good one I lol'd

 

 

Well, I think that might be enough for me to not buy the game at all.

 

First thing's first though: What meme?  I honestly have zero clue what we're talking about. 

 

Second, Fates has always been balancing on a knife's edge for me.  I was lukewarm to the way they handled Awakening as a narrative and this sounds like things just took a nosedive in the category I was hoping they'd at least not suck terribly at.  Goddamn, the localization did a lot to strain those issues even further.

 

I actually don't mind liberal translations.  It has to go in a specific direction though.  A famous example to me is still Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.  They took what's a fairly dark game in the original script (the Japanese version, not released until the days of 3DS, and the EU version were off the original writing) and brought it back into the Advance Wars semi-serious, semi-humorous tone.  Silly "Tactics" sections, some pretty funny dialogue, and this:

 

(Dialogue before: 2500 Feet! 2000 Feet! 1500 Feet!)

 

152-capture_03012013_113629.png

 

It has clear direction from the otherwise generic NPC.  It eases the tension and continues to push the notion of this world being kind of silly.

 

I could handle Awakening's.  It was clear they wanted a less contextual narrative.  Dialogue changed to a more contemporary style of speech and focused often on the more trivial matters.  It primarily focused on not keeping with the "old time" dialogue for the most part.  If memory serves, it lapses into it on rare occasion but primarily keeps it out of the FE7 type dialogue. 

 

By comparisons, it sounds like Fates' is all over the map.  It really does sound like nobody oversaw the development and two different groups decided to put their own take on things.  One wanted to redo Awakening, the other the old GBA Fire Emblems.

 

Between that, the lack of balanced gameplay, the lack of innovations, and the fairly atrocious way they've dealt with their novel concept (two campaigns), I think I'm out.  50-60 bucks (Canadian price for new handheld games) is a bit much for something that sounds that bad, even if it is Fire Emblem.

 

Edit - Having read all the characters in the game now, it's clear that IS can still write.  Kind of.  I mean, it's hit and miss, miss, miss, miss, miss...but they occasionally get some really interesting characters.  No clue how the translation will handle it, but Flora with well written dialogue seems like a character you'd be hard pressed to not like...which, honestly, makes the currently listed bungles of the translation team worse as the base material is probably not terrible and it reflects worse on the translating team if their intentional changes in dialogue weaken the writing.

 

Totally understandable IMO. Kind of a big part of the game, especially if you're playing for story/characters.

 

I'm not sure.

 

:(

 

I'm also ok with liberal translations, if they're still quality in their own way and aren't legit skimping out on super important stuff. In the end, a localized product to me isn't just the original product in a different language, though that's what a lot of people seem to think/expect.

 

*reads rest*

 

yeah it's a lot of money to put into something you have little confidence in

 

I haven't read up on a lot of the characters and I didn't read most Japanese supports but you know, I can take like... 50% hit and 50% miss, but 10% hit and 90% miss, especially if part of that is due to the translations, is a serious bummer. people can only overlook so many bad elements so they can enjoy the good elements, if you know what I mean

 

 

You know, this makes me miss the days when problems with Fire Emblem localization were just on the same level as Nergal saying "Quintessence?" instead of "Aenir?".

 

oh man, people even know about that? LOL. yeah, back then either no one knew or no one cared. now we have people who care, people who care too much, the same small localization fibs we've always had, and... actual serious localization problems, which we've definitely had but I think people expect better from Nintendo >_>'

 

 

That reminds me of when the FE fans freaked when Mamkutes became Manakete. 

 

I sure didn't. I was just confused. I was like, which is it? lol. Manakete sounds fine to me and that's why I use now *shruggles* (though I inadvertently associate "Mamkutes" with FE6)

 

 

I wish I was around for when we freaked over Mamkutes becoming Manakete.

 

On topic...I don't expect much from them after I saw the name changes. (but do we have JP audio? please tell me we have JP audio)

 

http://www.polygon.c...western-release

 

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

I wonder if there's a mute voice function in the options. That's what I did for Rune Factory 4.

 

bahaha. see you found the answer to that yourself. yeaaah. stinks. maybe part of their concern was that the Japanese voices wouldn't match up with the English text at all in some scenes, and they didn't want to worry about that, lol.

 

 

Is the game even trying to taking itself seriously at this point?

 

It seems to be so bad that I'm actually hoping it'll cross over into "so bad, it's hilarious" just so that I don't end up busting my forehead on the desk out of pure intolerance for the stupidity. I don't want the series to die but at the same time, I would really like it if they fired whatever writers they have now and go get their old ones back.

 

I feel you there. I've always taken FE relatively serious as a game, but at this point it feels like I'm at fault for that and I should just chill out and take it all like a joke. It's just for fun! chill out.

 

the problem is, they aren't marketing it like that, they're making it seem like it has an awesome story and stuff with important decisions and stuff but in actuality.... buhh... yeah... >_>' *sighs*

 

 

i think it's just that the reaction to awakening was so explosive that they had no choice but to go further with it. as sad as it is for those of us who love the series for what it used to be, the essence of FE may be completely changing over the next few releases. i don't want the series to die either, but i also don't want it to be reddit fodder for the rest of the foreseeable future. put another way if Fates is just a big as awakening then that's what IS is going to keep giving us. 

 

aye

 

sucks but it's why I don't have hope that the series will "get better" (i.e. start appealing to me like it used to) from hereon out. I'll slowly give up on the series as it becomes something that's really more like a spin-off with its own appeal, lol. as Kirant pointed out, it's a sales thing, so it is what it is. I don't think Awakening was wrong to exist, and yeah, the series couldn't keep being how it was. It needed to innovate/get better somehow. I'm not sure this was it though.

 

I think one of the big positives is casual mode, even though I'm not really a fan myself. it doesn't hurt my classic experience much (basically just odd having it be a thing) and it brought in a LOT of players who were unable to handle the series up to that point because permadeath was too hardcore. (someone IRL opened my eyes to this a bit, though I'm kind of assuming there are much more out there like him.) I don't think the writing, story, and gameplay had to necessarily decline for that purpose though. I think they could have hypothetically found a good balance between making likeable characters but not shallow characters, a good story but not too overwhelming or dark for casual fans, etc., but eh. whatever

 

don't even feel like typing anymore. i don't even care. just show me the next FE. I'm ready. show me what the future has in store for us FE oldies.


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#12 Mercurius

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 10:36 AM

 I'm ready. show me what the future has in store for us FE oldies.

FE veterans be like

 

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#13 ^Leo^

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 11:34 AM

on the topic of us oldies, does this not give us the opportunity to bring back the hacking community in full force? I know that a lot of the big modders from back when it was the cool thing to do have sorta "graduated" from FE, but this is a series just begging to be molded into something better. The new engine is just as receptive to mods as well, although it takes quite a bit more knowledge atm. It's not something that I'm interested in participating in myself, but I'd love to play some if it happened. Especially if we got something completely game changing. Low key I really want to see someone turn fates or awakening into fe4. That would make me so freakin happy.

 

edit: Tbh I'd probably be willing to learn how to do text edits if enough people were on board helping me to "fix" the narrative and dialogue.



#14 Blue Leafeon

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 11:44 AM

on the topic of us oldies, does this not give us the opportunity to bring back the hacking community in full force? I know that a lot of the big modders from back when it was the cool thing to do have sorta "graduated" from FE, but this is a series just begging to be molded into something better. The new engine is just as receptive to mods as well, although it takes quite a bit more knowledge atm. It's not something that I'm interested in participating in myself, but I'd love to play some if it happened. Especially if we got something completely game changing. Low key I really want to see someone turn fates or awakening into fe4. That would make me so freakin happy.

 

edit: Tbh I'd probably be willing to learn how to do text edits if enough people were on board helping me to "fix" the narrative and dialogue.

When FEXNA FINALLY releases, I'm sure we'll have a busload of activity in the game-creating sections of our communities. The problem with hacking is that people have literally gone as far as they can go with the games themselves, at least, with GBAFE. Might be different for things like the GC games, DS games, etc. There are actually a couple handfuls of people waiting for the tool to release so they can make the games they have in mind, myself included.

 

If I knew anything about hacking 3DS games I would totally help with fixing Fates' problems... but as it is, I don't even know how you guys are hacking/playing the games as it is. Do you have some kind of bootlegged OS on your 3DS consoles?


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#15 ^Leo^

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 12:05 PM

it's not really a bootlegged os, but we're patching certain signature checks that would otherwise not let you run your own code. that's the basic version of it. the actual editing is far more complicated than that because you have to dump, decrypt, extract, edit, rebuild, and pray that you didn't mess anything up when you run it. any large problems could lead to your 3ds soft bricking/hard bricking and you have to start over from scratch(luckily there are ways to avoid turning your 3ds into a paperweight if this happens but most people wouldn't mess with it anyway.) long story short nintendo has a great security system on the 3ds, so hacks are going to be limited to a small team of incredibly knowledgeable people. unfortunately i don't know what i'm doing with any of it, so i was just going to extract the game data  and poke around to see if i can find anything today.



#16 Fire Blazer

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 01:41 AM

I'm sorry I haven't properly responded to stuff, but I do have something to share real quick:

 

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#17 Cero

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 01:46 AM

At least they fixed the Soleil support lol. 

 

About the picture I can't really say much at all. We have no idea what were on those removed files. Maybe they were dummy files? Maybe they removed the other route from the cart? Who knows. I guess I can assume a lot of those files removed were voicelines for the face rubbing, but you get to face rub if you get to max support with someone so that doesn't really make too much sense unless they just made less lines. 


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#18 Fire Blazer

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 02:16 AM

At least they fixed the Soleil support lol. 

 

About the picture I can't really say much at all. We have no idea what were on those removed files. Maybe they were dummy files? Maybe they removed the other route from the cart? Who knows. I guess I can assume a lot of those files removed were voicelines for the face rubbing, but you get to face rub if you get to max support with someone so that doesn't really make too much sense unless they just made less lines. 

 

did they? I saw... Kantopia, I think? someone uploaded it, idk. But I didn't watch it. not even interested really/even more of a headache I'd have to think about, probably.

 

yeah, you make a fair point. we don't know the details. if it's duplicates or dummy files they removed, then :\ maybe it's the facerubbing lines too (i.e. a combination of that and other stuff, I feel like that's way too much to be from one source). it's tough to say but if nothing else it's not helping NoA's case at all, haha. I do have to wonder how so much stuff could be gone though...


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#19 Cero

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 04:17 AM

https://www.reddit.c...or_just_doesnt/

Pleasently surprised. Good on you localization. 


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#20 kirant

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 06:38 AM

Props where it's due...that's a good step for them.  Not sure what it means from the standpoint of gameplay (I'd assume that they are all second generation characters), but good for them.


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