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RWBY S3 Discussion


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#1 Fire Blazer

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 05:36 PM

(Specifically now that the finale is over, at least for sponsors.)

 

THIS THREAD WILL OBVIOUSLY CONTAIN SPOILERS. BE WARNED/DON'T READ IT IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE WHOLE SEASON YET AND DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED. Also, you don't need to use spoiler tags in this thread as spoilers are a given.

 

With that out of the way... My thoughts: http://www.twitlonge.../show/n_1soafvu


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#2 kirant

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 08:01 AM

I know virtually nothing of the series, but will try to converse as it seems you're pretty passionate about it.

 

Here's my entire information base going in: the TVtropes articles, some random ScrewAttack video (something called "Death Battle", which attempts to scientifically calculate which character is fundamentally stronger.  It seems to be a bit sketchy on the information (it screwed up a physics calculation at one point (the structural compression stress, the amount of force you'd need to pull/push it with in order to crack it, is confused with the shearing force, the amount of force you'd need to apply to the top of something in order to force the top to move while the bottom is held flat.  Another way to look at this is that it confuses how much effort it would take to rip a book in half as oppose to crush it), so it's details are automatically a bit concerning), and about the 5 minutes I watched when I saw my brother viewing the show a while ago (season 3, episode 2?  Going by episode summaries, it sounds right.  It involved characters in a battle arena and I was confused to no end by the actual rules of the tournament as they seemingly didn't exist. I specifically remember asking questions like "What the hell are those HP bars for?", "How did they decide this terrain?", and "what exactly ends the match for a character?").

 

So...here goes nothing.

 

Spoiler

 

That's all I've got.  Hopefully it gives a little for you to discuss as I'm hopelessly out of my element here.


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#3 Elwood

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 06:00 AM

I'll start with Torchwick is dead for sure. They confirmed this in the livestream on Friday. It sucks but apparently he wasn't meant to last this long anyway and only stuck around because of popularity with the fans and the team.

 

With Yang I think they will definitely go the robot arm rout. The entire right side of Ironwood's body is robotic so we know the technology exists in the RWBY universe. I'm also interested in how this will effect her relationship with Raven. In the one glimpse we've had of her she was wearing a grimm mask so she could be a rogue huntress or maybe undercover. If she is rogue she may try to persuade Yang to join the grimm queen (that's what I'm calling the creepy lady at the end of episode 12). Personally I doubt she's helping the grimm but I would love to see her and Yang teaming up.

 

Penny is a robot so naturally they'll be able to fix/rebuild her.

 

One really cool thing I saw in episode 11 is that the giant knight Weiss is fighting in the white trailer is her summon. We only see his arm and sword in the episode so be looking forward to seeing the complete summon down the road.

 

With Pyhrra it looked almost like Cinder absorbed her. When she was in the vault getting Autumn's power she seemed to absorb at least some of it before Cinder stopped the process. So maybe what we saw was Cinder absorbing the rest of Autumn's power out of Pyhrra.

 

While I am interested in the pair up of Ruby with the remaining members of JNPR I am worried things may be streched too thin in season 4. We have each member of team RWBY separated meaning we'll get four seperate story arcs or some of the characters will be ignored. Ignoring any of them is bad because let's face it, we want to see what is happening with all of them. On the other hand the episodes can be really short so doing four stories at the same time doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

That's all I've got. I'm not much for speculation but I had a few thoughts so I thought I'd contribute.

 

 

EDIT: After reading a set of tweets on Jen Brown's twitter Pyhrra is definitely dead. Apparently when she got the part Monty told her that this is how she was going to die.


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#4 arimibn

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 02:38 PM

There were several times in the series where I was yelling at the screen.

 

RUBY HAS SUPER SPEED. WHY DOESN'T SHE EVER USE IT?


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#5 Fire Blazer

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 06:41 AM

 

I know virtually nothing of the series, but will try to converse as it seems you're pretty passionate about it.

 

Here's my entire information base going in: the TVtropes articles, some random ScrewAttack video (something called "Death Battle"...)

 

ughhh. sorry but I'm not a fan of this. TVTropes tends to be a massive oversimplification things that tends to put any element of story in a negative and/or critical light, and Death Battles are cool but can only be taken so seriously given that they have to combine the rules of multiple universes together... so it's also not a great source of info

 

but that being said I'd feel bad just ignoring everything you said so *reads*

 

yeah, it has a lot of cliches. arguably based around them to some extent.

 

it's based around fairy tales and even has fairy tales within the story, lol.

 

no, it should not be taken too seriously. I kind of complain a lot when about all the flaws of the show. there are a ton IMO. I think the show is at its best when it's being funny or just focusing on action. does it technically have the most well-animated scenes out there? no, but along with the astounding (IMO) soundtrack and the absolutely crazy weapon designs, it's generally VERY thrilling to watch these 3D fights. in other words, I like the show because of the over-the-top action, so when that isn't satisfying me (see: 95% of season 3, whereas season 1 and 2 did much better for me) it's pretty bleh. I don't want to criticize the people who made it too much because they're people and they work super hard on it and no, they're probably not super experienced professionals and no, I probably couldn't do better, but there's definitely room for improvement.

 

that being said, the last two episodes of season 3 did take a turn that people weren't sure would happen, because it was relatively light-hearted up to that point.it's still not the darkest/most mature thing but it definitely has added enough weight to the story for me to actually be even invested a bit outside of just liking characters because they're cool/funny/whatever, lol.

 

and yeah, it doesn't explain in-universe rules a lot. one of the many things I have complained about, I think. you can guess about the rules a lot but it really doesn't clearly set them up which bothers me. I look a good mix of thinking for myself but having clearly set boundaries so we don't just have to assume everything. One Piece does a good job of this IMO though of course it's huge/super old and long-running so it has flaws. Hunter x Hunter also did well.

 

*reads more*

 

I don't expect this to get too crazy, tbh. They do have to appeal to the audience that they've inadvertently gotten which is not a super dark audience, so in that sense I feel like they can't take it farther than a "T for Teen" rating, lol.

 

As far as the dead character goes, yeah, there's no body, so... :| basically that's why I'm doubting anyone is really dead. there were no funerals and such. I have been in denial before (such as recently in Tokyo Ghoul) but it's like, hey, if you really see the dead body, I mean... come on. But if you don't and it's not just something else weird (and it's not some crazy fantasy deal where they turn them into a zombie on the enemy side or whatever), then uh... ._.

 

anyway, it did give me something to discuss in the end, so I do appreciate that, hahaha. and it was worth reading in the end + you're cool and didn't just jump to a ton of crazy conclusions off of TVTropes, thankfully. I know you're not the kind of person to do that but I can't help but be afraid. TVTropes (and tropes in general) aren't really inherently good or bad, but I feel like people tend to use them in bad ways >>'

 

 

I'll start with Torchwick is dead for sure. They confirmed this in the livestream on Friday. It sucks but apparently he wasn't meant to last this long anyway and only stuck around because of popularity with the fans and the team.

 

With Yang I think they will definitely go the robot arm rout. The entire right side of Ironwood's body is robotic so we know the technology exists in the RWBY universe. I'm also interested in how this will effect her relationship with Raven. In the one glimpse we've had of her she was wearing a grimm mask so she could be a rogue huntress or maybe undercover. If she is rogue she may try to persuade Yang to join the grimm queen (that's what I'm calling the creepy lady at the end of episode 12). Personally I doubt she's helping the grimm but I would love to see her and Yang teaming up.

 

Penny is a robot so naturally they'll be able to fix/rebuild her.

 

One really cool thing I saw in episode 11 is that the giant knight Weiss is fighting in the white trailer is her summon. We only see his arm and sword in the episode so be looking forward to seeing the complete summon down the road.

 

With Pyhrra it looked almost like Cinder absorbed her. When she was in the vault getting Autumn's power she seemed to absorb at least some of it before Cinder stopped the process. So maybe what we saw was Cinder absorbing the rest of Autumn's power out of Pyhrra.

 

While I am interested in the pair up of Ruby with the remaining members of JNPR I am worried things may be streched too thin in season 4. We have each member of team RWBY separated meaning we'll get four seperate story arcs or some of the characters will be ignored. Ignoring any of them is bad because let's face it, we want to see what is happening with all of them. On the other hand the episodes can be really short so doing four stories at the same time doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

That's all I've got. I'm not much for speculation but I had a few thoughts so I thought I'd contribute.

 

 

EDIT: After reading a set of tweets on Jen Brown's twitter Pyhrra is definitely dead. Apparently when she got the part Monty told her that this is how she was going to die.

 

oh man, really? official confirmation too, uh, wow O_o I just... well then. It's not like actually a huge deal, I'm just kind of surprised. The main reason I doubted it is basically because this show doesn't have precedence for people dying/how much they can take and such, so... ._. welp, thanks for telling me, that's good to know. I'd have kept on wondering if we'd secretly see a zombie Torchwik.

 

I will say two things on him though. First, I also liked him a bit, mostly because I thought he was funny and such (in part due to his voice actor) , and second, I'm disappointed that he didn't get his butt kicked by Ruby in the end. Like come on Ruby, show him who is boss. >_>'

 

@Yang, super likely, yeah, but it'd be awesome if they subverted our expectations and did something different. Be all "hey, I know ya'll are thinking she'll get a robotic arm, especially because we showed/hinted it's possible, but IN ACTUALITY... she's gonna (insert plot twist here)". I could dig that, haha. A little unpredictability can go a long way.

 

Supposedly, though will she have everything that she did back? Idk. Again, just a matter of not really setting precedence/rules for things = I'm not sure what to expect.

 

Yeah, that's what it seemed like. Those trailers are canon after all, IIRC.

 

That's certainly possible. Also reminded me of her aura in general. However, how the heck do you absorb a person? Does that mean Pyrrha is still alive in some form or what? See, I just can't freaking explain any of this. It's all just crazy magic b.s. right now which is kind of upsetting. We don't have much on rules for aura and semblance in general except how aura is limited and heals wounds and other small, trivial details, so >___>'

 

You make a fair point and it'll probably feel like a dragged out 2 or 3 seasons to some unless they just start making every episode 20+ minutes so they can fit in more content to show what everyone is doing... but I don't expect that.

 

Huh, wow...

 

...

 

*reads edit*

 

no way ._. /denial I... I can't even. That for real? What a way to go. That's just so dark if so that it just doesn't mesh with my overall image of RWBY in the least. They killed Jaune's love interest, one of characters that got so much attention she actually had more fights than Ruby, the MC? .___. I mean, again, in a way it makes sense—you could say they were foreshadowing it—but at the same time it just seems way too gutsy for this show. Plus that means Jaune and everyone else have to get over that somehow and move on knowing that she's actually dead... and the fact that they seemed to already be doing a little ok is... bleh... I don't even know. in a way it's good and in a way it's bad. I have mixed feelings. I'm not particularly bummed about Pyrrha being dead (even though she was definitely a cool character that will be missed dearly) so much as it is being confused about how to feel about the show in general with what they're doing and stuff. It's all kind of a headache-inducing mess I can't make sense of. Maybe I need to rewatch the finale again. Maybe RoosterTeeth needs to do a better job of writing their stories so people don't have to be so confused/unsure of what's actually happening and how this world works amongst other things. idk. >_>'


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#6 kirant

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 08:16 AM

ughhh. sorry but I'm not a fan of this. TVTropes tends to be a massive oversimplification things that tends to put any element of story in a negative and/or critical light, and Death Battles are cool but can only be taken so seriously given that they have to combine the rules of multiple universes together... so it's also not a great source of info

TVtropes is typically fine as long as you understand each trope's basis.  That is, you can build your understanding based on what combination of tropes come together.  The "descriptions" on each listed trope, if you can even call it that, are pretty useless but you get a pretty good handle on the implied traits seeing something like "Clingy Jealous Girl" with "Well Done Son Guy" attached to the same character.  I agree that these are terrible primary sources but it's a question of "do I really want to do that much more research"?  Wiki pages of all stripes don't give good character analysis and I'm not really keen on reading many, many pages worth of analysis (that is, finding stuff in the 10-15 pages' worth of detail to analyze the simplest of subtleties) to figure out the deeper meanings.  Watching the series would be an excessively long practice, and one that I wouldn't enjoy from what I've read on all the posts so far.  So...yeah, it's pretty much the limit of where I could go.

 

I would also agree that the Death Battle video was pretty worthless.  There are logical fallacies in it a mile wide, though it does give me an understanding of what type of universe RWBY is.  Again, the analysis is worthless for sure (as my previous aside about the physics failures indicate)...so about all I drew from is the base world the same way you could listen to Honest Trailers and understand that Pacific Rim is a non-serious universe by virtue of the fact that they solve their problems by building robots to punch monsters in the face.  Certain aspects of it were evident from the get go (such as the "try not to think too hard" part when a character wields weapons suitable for the sillier parts of Fallout.  Most of the questions I listed above were because I had no clue what the hell was going on). 

 

yeah, it has a lot of cliches. arguably based around them to some extent.

 

it's based around fairy tales and even has fairy tales within the story, lol.

That's interesting because that creates a question similar to Pacific Rim and Tales of Symphonia (which honestly is my go to parallel at the moment): Is it a series which adopts cliches because it wants to make the narrative easy and let you get to the money shots without thinking (Pacific Rim)?  Or is it a series which uses cliches as a way to create familiar narrative and then play with them nine ways to Sunday (Tales of Symphonia)?  It's entirely possible, and I wouldn't doubt either as it's a web series, that either are true.  We could see this as a simple vehicle to allow viewers to get to the next exciting action scene or to just simply build up tension.  But the alternative, where this is all part of "the long game", is also equally possible given the devotion that the creator had before his passing.  I mean, going by that Twitter comment above, it sounds like there is a long narrative planned and that setting up the universe as cheerful and paint by numbers was all preparation for bringing down the deconstructive hammer (a crazy awesome strategy if it goes that route; I always loved Tales of Symphonia for that reason).  The spoilered comments I read before basically point to the idea that they're putting characters through stress testing akin to Fafner.  Whether it stays that way and heads into despair or if it uses it as a cliffhanger is another question.  I guess the question would be if this character changes permanently...a question I guess you'd need to follow up on in many months.

 

I seriously doubt they go down The Walking Dead path of randomly changing their characters in and out.  It doesn't have that type of tone given the climactic nature of the death.  It might walk that of Stellvia which used it as a maturation point.  It's an interesting conceptual and design question.

 

As far as the dead character goes, yeah, there's no body, so... :| basically that's why I'm doubting anyone is really dead. there were no funerals and such. I have been in denial before (such as recently in Tokyo Ghoul) but it's like, hey, if you really see the dead body, I mean... come on. But if you don't and it's not just something else weird (and it's not some crazy fantasy deal where they turn them into a zombie on the enemy side or whatever), then uh... ._.

An interesting conversation I had with my brother on this led to him telling me that they typically treat death this way.  That is, dead bodies are unnatural in the universe and that it's part of their artistic choice.  Probably since nobody would like to see dead bodies of any character on screen.  It would explain a bit.

 

TVTropes (and tropes in general) aren't really inherently good or bad, but I feel like people tend to use them in bad ways >>'

The biggest issue is when people use tropes as pieces of a world alone.  Unless it's in a Pacific Rim situation, which throws tropes at you just so they don't have to write much narrative and escort you to the action, it creates a hollow narrative.  Much of what people forget with tropes is that tropes need backing.  Why does the trope exist?  What interaction does it have with the other character traits?  What does this trope say about your universe and why does it matter?  They are all little things that people tend to gloss through if they build without consideration to the past successes which built the trope up.

 

Honestly, I've a very trope heavy writer myself.  I love throwing them together and mentally thinking out what two tropes on the same character mean.  Or what real life consequences occur when a character with tropes seen in a fictional series actually do work.  It's pretty much trope-analyzing top-down design...if that means anything at all.


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#7 Fire Blazer

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 12:11 AM

 

TVtropes is typically fine as long as you understand each trope's basis.  That is, you can build your understanding based on what combination of tropes come together.  The "descriptions" on each listed trope, if you can even call it that, are pretty useless but you get a pretty good handle on the implied traits seeing something like "Clingy Jealous Girl" with "Well Done Son Guy" attached to the same character.  I agree that these are terrible primary sources but it's a question of "do I really want to do that much more research"?  Wiki pages of all stripes don't give good character analysis and I'm not really keen on reading many, many pages worth of analysis (that is, finding stuff in the 10-15 pages' worth of detail to analyze the simplest of subtleties) to figure out the deeper meanings.  Watching the series would be an excessively long practice, and one that I wouldn't enjoy from what I've read on all the posts so far.  So...yeah, it's pretty much the limit of where I could go.

 

Like I said though. Can't exactly expect people to do that. Feel like tropes are usually just ways to oversimplify things and talk about them in a condescending manner.

 

and yeah, I don't think you'd enjoy this show in the least, so XP

 

 

I would also agree that the Death Battle video was pretty worthless.  There are logical fallacies in it a mile wide, though it does give me an understanding of what type of universe RWBY is.  Again, the analysis is worthless for sure (as my previous aside about the physics failures indicate)...so about all I drew from is the base world the same way you could listen to Honest Trailers and understand that Pacific Rim is a non-serious universe by virtue of the fact that they solve their problems by building robots to punch monsters in the face.  Certain aspects of it were evident from the get go (such as the "try not to think too hard" part when a character wields weapons suitable for the sillier parts of Fallout.  Most of the questions I listed above were because I had no clue what the hell was going on).

 

haha yeah, Death Battle is like... glorified fan service or something, heh. It does cover same basic info about the series though so in that sense watching it wasn't useless/devoid of merit

 

 

That's interesting because that creates a question similar to Pacific Rim and Tales of Symphonia (which honestly is my go to parallel at the moment): Is it a series which adopts cliches because it wants to make the narrative easy and let you get to the money shots without thinking (Pacific Rim)?  Or is it a series which uses cliches as a way to create familiar narrative and then play with them nine ways to Sunday (Tales of Symphonia)?  It's entirely possible, and I wouldn't doubt either as it's a web series, that either are true.  We could see this as a simple vehicle to allow viewers to get to the next exciting action scene or to just simply build up tension.  But the alternative, where this is all part of "the long game", is also equally possible given the devotion that the creator had before his passing.  I mean, going by that Twitter comment above, it sounds like there is a long narrative planned and that setting up the universe as cheerful and paint by numbers was all preparation for bringing down the deconstructive hammer (a crazy awesome strategy if it goes that route; I always loved Tales of Symphonia for that reason).  The spoilered comments I read before basically point to the idea that they're putting characters through stress testing akin to Fafner.  Whether it stays that way and heads into despair or if it uses it as a cliffhanger is another question.  I guess the question would be if this character changes permanently...a question I guess you'd need to follow up on in many months.

 

I seriously doubt they go down The Walking Dead path of randomly changing their characters in and out.  It doesn't have that type of tone given the climactic nature of the death.  It might walk that of Stellvia which used it as a maturation point.  It's an interesting conceptual and design question.

 

aye, I more or less get where you're going here. and RWBY has had hints of darker themes but at the same time it wasn't that dramatic of a change or anything. I feel like it might be some middle ground--this is a maturation point, a breaking down of what we have to some extent, where things change up a bit, but nothing too crazy. I don't feel like this would be a point where the story would actually take a much more serious twist and change in its fundamental nature, I see it as more of a catalyst of sorts... a shift in mentality for us viewers and for the characters, that the cozy school life action show really is going to be more than that, but I don't think we can expect like, a crazy good/dynamic/unpredictable plot from hereon out either.

 

(idk if that made any sense, having a hard time being coherent)

 

 

An interesting conversation I had with my brother on this led to him telling me that they typically treat death this way.  That is, dead bodies are unnatural in the universe and that it's part of their artistic choice.  Probably since nobody would like to see dead bodies of any character on screen.  It would explain a bit.

 

brother watches RWBY? did I just miss that earlier, did I just forget, or did you not mention it until now? Hmm, dead bodies are unnatural... I suppose that's ok, but then again there's at least one instance of a grave... not like they couldn't just have those regardless, but again, it's not a normal thing that makes sense in our universe and it wasn't explained in-show, so that definitely bothers me. At least if someone remarked on it... >____>'. And eh, I mean, I don't particularly care if they show the dead body or not, though I guess not showing it is better. I just wish they had made it more decisive. They even choose to say "she's gone" instead of "she's dead". Ambiguity in a world we don't understand is just bleh, and I shouldn't have to go to these extra sources of info or whatever to understand core things about the world.

 

 

The biggest issue is when people use tropes as pieces of a world alone.  Unless it's in a Pacific Rim situation, which throws tropes at you just so they don't have to write much narrative and escort you to the action, it creates a hollow narrative.  Much of what people forget with tropes is that tropes need backing.  Why does the trope exist?  What interaction does it have with the other character traits?  What does this trope say about your universe and why does it matter?  They are all little things that people tend to gloss through if they build without consideration to the past successes which built the trope up.

 

Honestly, I've a very trope heavy writer myself.  I love throwing them together and mentally thinking out what two tropes on the same character mean.  Or what real life consequences occur when a character with tropes seen in a fictional series actually do work.  It's pretty much trope-analyzing top-down design...if that means anything at all.

 

fair enough

 

as for me, I don't like to categorize things too much. I'm aware of certain tropes or just tendencies or whatever in general, but... like, I don't want to think of a character as "X + Y trope" or something like that. i want to think of them as a character... as something more than just some weird names for ideas or concepts or trends or whatever. It feels like it's dumbing something down/making less of it. I just like to think of characters and if they happen to meet one of the millions (or what feels like millions, anyway) of tropes out there, then fine, but that's a coincidence.

 

That's kind of the opposite of you. I think of my characters and story not off tropes but I just... think of them. Off fiction, off reality, whatever. I feel like it'd be insulting to take a character or a plot point and list it off as tropes. It makes it seem unoriginal and shallow and devoid of merit when presented in that way. But just because something follows some trope, by coincidence or otherwise, doesn't mean it's shallow. Just because it's subverting it doesn't mean it's being a tryhard and trying to be hipster by subverting it. Sometimes they're just... ideas. They just are what they are. idk

 

I also don't like archetypes in FE either. Yeah, the Jagen-esque character is certainly a thing, but I like to think of each one as an individual, not "the Jagen of their game". Marcus is Marcus. Seth is Seth. Titania is Titania. They aren't just the generic Jagens of their game, they're their own characters and again, just calling them "Jagens" feels like an insult, so I don't like to do that. *shrugs*


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#8 kirant

kirant

    I won't go until it's over

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 08:00 AM

Like I said though. Can't exactly expect people to do that. Feel like tropes are usually just ways to oversimplify things and talk about them in a condescending manner.

 

and yeah, I don't think you'd enjoy this show in the least, so XP

Tropes are probably misunderstood at some level.  They're very much patterns in a series.  Certain "bins" that we can file ideas under.  The aggressive girl who's got a sweeter and romantic side (and, depending on how it's handled, either exists simultaneously or goes from the former to the latter over the course of the series)...it's a fairly specialized notion yet we see it happen frequently, especially in the anime category.  So we give it a name.

 

Now, this is where my inner "apply science to everything, damn it" mentality comes in.  It's obvious that there's uncertainty if you file something together.  I mean, if you take out a ruler and round to the nearest cm, you have error of 0.5 cm (simply since you lop off the decimal point...and use the word inch instead of cm if that's more comfortable).  Same here.  The more general the trope, the more uncertainty exists in the exact nature of things.  I could easily compare a Ryoko Subaru to Asuka Soryu using the above definition.  The subtly is quite minor in this case (as Ryoko is written as a shout out to Asuka but has a more mature and emotionally stable mentality), but the case still stands: the categories can become quite overarching and general.  Simply defining a character by a specific trope doesn't tell you everything you need to know...and some people treat them that way.  That a character with the same trope set will act the same as another character which falls into the exact same trope set.

 

 

haha yeah, Death Battle is like... glorified fan service or something, heh. It does cover same basic info about the series though so in that sense watching it wasn't useless/devoid of merit

I think they try.  They really, really try.  They create a medium which attempts to pit characters against each other while making it fun and entertaining.  At least, that's what I get by the fact that they have a legion of fact checkers credited.  However, it's naturally extremely difficult to measure such things.  They try to confine themselves to actual physics calculations when the calculations make no sense.  They also sometimes just fail to quantify things (ex - in the video I watched, they fail to calculate the strength of an atomic explosion at point blank range), either because they forget or out of intent.

 

It really looks like it wants to be fun in the same way the old TV series Deadliest Warrior was fun (a series just as devoid of logical inferences).  And all the power to ScrewAttack to make it happen.  A look at their videos and it's the one drawing in the most views by a wide margin.

 

 

aye, I more or less get where you're going here. and RWBY has had hints of darker themes but at the same time it wasn't that dramatic of a change or anything. I feel like it might be some middle ground--this is a maturation point, a breaking down of what we have to some extent, where things change up a bit, but nothing too crazy. I don't feel like this would be a point where the story would actually take a much more serious twist and change in its fundamental nature, I see it as more of a catalyst of sorts... a shift in mentality for us viewers and for the characters, that the cozy school life action show really is going to be more than that, but I don't think we can expect like, a crazy good/dynamic/unpredictable plot from hereon out either.

 

(idk if that made any sense, having a hard time being coherent)

It's possible too.  That's more of the Harry Potter approach and the reason I mentioned it early (though I'm not 100% sure if Harry Potter is an intentional case or if it's Rowling developing more writing skills...god knows the first few books utilized "said" every few sentences with no variation).  The deaths in that series marked a shift in tone from the more whimsical novels to ones hitting a serious narrative and the main plot line...again, not sure if it's intentional or not.

 

brother watches RWBY? did I just miss that earlier, did I just forget, or did you not mention it until now? Hmm, dead bodies are unnatural... I suppose that's ok, but then again there's at least one instance of a grave... not like they couldn't just have those regardless, but again, it's not a normal thing that makes sense in our universe and it wasn't explained in-show, so that definitely bothers me. At least if someone remarked on it... >____>'. And eh, I mean, I don't particularly care if they show the dead body or not, though I guess not showing it is better. I just wish they had made it more decisive. They even choose to say "she's gone" instead of "she's dead". Ambiguity in a world we don't understand is just bleh, and I shouldn't have to go to these extra sources of info or whatever to understand core things about the world.

1) Yes.  I did mention it earlier but it's really easy to miss since it's not terribly relevant to anything.

2) I think many series fear the "dead" word.  I would posit that it's primarily because "dead" or "deceased" is far too clinical.  I don't know who addresses it in the series but a character who struggles with death or is a bit more spiritual in nature might use the term "gone" instead.  There are hundreds of ways to address it.  The fact that it's a cliffhanger does imply that the term is intentionally ambiguous though which again feeds back to the "keep interest high for months" line of thought and how The Walking Dead utilized ambiguity to force its fans through lean episodes.

 

 

fair enough

 

as for me, I don't like to categorize things too much. I'm aware of certain tropes or just tendencies or whatever in general, but... like, I don't want to think of a character as "X + Y trope" or something like that. i want to think of them as a character... as something more than just some weird names for ideas or concepts or trends or whatever. It feels like it's dumbing something down/making less of it. I just like to think of characters and if they happen to meet one of the millions (or what feels like millions, anyway) of tropes out there, then fine, but that's a coincidence.

 

That's kind of the opposite of you. I think of my characters and story not off tropes but I just... think of them. Off fiction, off reality, whatever. I feel like it'd be insulting to take a character or a plot point and list it off as tropes. It makes it seem unoriginal and shallow and devoid of merit when presented in that way. But just because something follows some trope, by coincidence or otherwise, doesn't mean it's shallow. Just because it's subverting it doesn't mean it's being a tryhard and trying to be hipster by subverting it. Sometimes they're just... ideas. They just are what they are. idk

 

I also don't like archetypes in FE either. Yeah, the Jagen-esque character is certainly a thing, but I like to think of each one as an individual, not "the Jagen of their game". Marcus is Marcus. Seth is Seth. Titania is Titania. They aren't just the generic Jagens of their game, they're their own characters and again, just calling them "Jagens" feels like an insult, so I don't like to do that. *shrugs*

I think I might have written poorly.  The idea of mixing tropes is certainly my starting point.  It gives me direction, however vague.  For example, one character I wrote last year basically started off with "how can I take Yukiko Amagi's core tropes and screw around with them to make something new"?  More recently, I've worked on a character emphasizing the core personality of black magic in Magic: The Gathering.  That is, a character who utilizes ruthlessness and an unfettered nature, but not necessarily malice.  I feel it's very much influenced by a required reading I had ("Uncreative writing" by Kenneth Goldsmith) as my characters often aren't purely invented on my own but rehashed through many filters and lenses to the point where they are a new entity.

 

Past that, the character can take on a life of their own.  It becomes a training wheels process, where I then do a massive search and have to decide which way I want to drive the tropes from the core nucleus of notions.  The whole tropes thing gets dropped (where I'm proscribing tropes to my character and just putting them on so I don't forget the exact character I have) about halfway through.  It's still an extremely trope heavy process but one which sometimes explores unlisted grounds and ones which quite often can't find a home in any trope page specifically.  These often get to the point where, if I want, I could have characters debate inside my head if I remember them well enough (and, when I started out and only had about 3-4 characters, I did).

 

An example of that would be, in very broad strokes:

 - I started with an inspiration from an old animated series...one of the "good girl" characters decided to play along as a rebel for an episode.  The status quo gods being what they are, this reverted at the end of the episode.  All very tropable notions.

 - The question I posed was "what could cause this to happen 24/7"?

 - This reached into the notion of "what could change a character from one who advocates rules to one with casual disregard"?

 - Then I asked "what are other lasting effects of events which cause this type of mentality change?"

 - ...And so on.

 

Which I guess is more bottom up the more I think about it since I have a notion in mind and want to fill out the rest of the character to create it.  It'd be similar to saying "I want an FE character with these stats.  Now I should write a personality to fit the stats". 


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