730 replies to this topic

[kirant]

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Mar 31 2013, 06:09 PM)

If I had the money, I would buy everything I like. I have a good few dvds of stuff I like, but lack of money at the moment means I can't buy everything I wish. Someday those Ghost in the Shell boxsets shall be mine, as well as the Evangelian Rebuilds in sexy Blu-ray

I really don't have the money either...I just limit what I watch to a select few. Psycho-pass is probably the first pickup in a year or two.

[Seraphinox]

Nice, I have a large collection of Manga books (One Piece and Black Lagoon) which is where all my money went when I had it the last few years.

You never know where you might find hidden gems though. I found an original copy of Ghost in the Shell for €2 in a Gamestop one time, came with ornate box and a poster

[Fire Blazer]

QUOTE

The outright refusal of use of moe as development

sorry but I don't really understand this "moe" thing, partly because I don't watch a large variety of anime/manga and don't spend much time talking to people who do, I was just wondering if you could explain what you meant by "use of moe as development"

also psycho-pass is next on my list of anime to watch (currently started up Code Geass, hope to finish it by next week via staying up way later than I should like last week... lol)

[kirant]

QUOTE (Blazer @ Mar 31 2013, 07:42 PM)

QUOTE The outright refusal of use of moe as development sorry but I don't really understand this "moe" thing, partly because I don't watch a large variety of anime/manga and don't spend much time talking to people who do, I was just wondering if you could explain what you meant by "use of moe as development" also psycho-pass is next on my list of anime to watch (currently started up Code Geass, hope to finish it by next week via staying up way later than I should like last week... lol)

The "moe phenomenon", as it's often called, is the use of certain lists of traits in characters in replacement of character development. Characters are often made to be pure, innocent, and generally helpless. The design is to inspire a protective instinct from the viewer. A famous example of this would be the purely undeveloped Mikuru Asahina of the Haruhi Suzumiya show.

An interesting famous cause of opposition of this is director Hayao Miyazaki, who thinks that the use of these traits have gotten to the point of being used as a power fantasy.

[Mercurius]

It should be noted that the writer of Psycho-pass(Urobuchi Gen) has a rather broad category for "moe"

QUOTE

Urobuchi:We talked about this in the interview, but we wanted Jun to be more of a scream queen (*21). Tanaka:Yeah, we wanted her to be scream-elemental. Urobuchi:But the scene where she was blood-splattered and crying had a lot of moe in it.

[Cero]

QUOTE (Hatless @ Mar 31 2013, 09:39 PM)

It should be noted that the writer of Psycho-pass(Urobuchi Gen) has a rather broad category for "moe" QUOTE Urobuchi:We talked about this in the interview, but we wanted Jun to be more of a scream queen (*21). Tanaka:Yeah, we wanted her to be scream-elemental. Urobuchi:But the scene where she was blood-splattered and crying had a lot of moe in it.

Well, moe is actually a very broad term since it is a feeling and not really a set definition. People can find many things "moe". Such as some people found L from Death Note moe. There isn't really characters that are moe and can't say they aren't because moe is more of a feeling then it is a trait. "moe-blob" characters are more so characters that are traits that bring about the moe feeling in a majority of people. But since it is a feeling, to each his own.

[Fire Blazer]

...

this is too confusing

I quit

[kirant]

QUOTE (ShadowCero @ Mar 31 2013, 09:02 PM)

QUOTE (Hatless @ Mar 31 2013, 09:39 PM) It should be noted that the writer of Psycho-pass(Urobuchi Gen) has a rather broad category for "moe" QUOTE Urobuchi:We talked about this in the interview, but we wanted Jun to be more of a scream queen (*21). Tanaka:Yeah, we wanted her to be scream-elemental. Urobuchi:But the scene where she was blood-splattered and crying had a lot of moe in it. Well, moe is actually a very broad term since it is a feeling and not really a set definition. People can find many things "moe". Such as some people found L from Death Note moe. There isn't really characters that are moe and can't say they aren't because moe is more of a feeling then it is a trait. "moe-blob" characters are more so characters that are traits that bring about the moe feeling in a majority of people. But since it is a feeling, to each his own.

As I mentioned earlier, the intent of characters which are defined as such are the emotions they attempt to induce (namely, that "protector instinct"). The odd part, and probably why the definition is so hard to pin down, is the fact that the trait is attached to the character that creates the emotion (generally qualified as the ability of the character to create the emotion), as in "[x] is moe", not with the emotion itself, such as "I felt moe over [x]" (well, if the word could actually be used that way).

A great resource for anybody actually reading this sort of stuff is this article:
http://www.japaneses.../Galbraith.html

On an actually on-topic note, I'm happy I took the jump into Psycho-pass. At least 1 out of 1 episodes have been interesting.

[Seraphinox]

If you want the ultra definition of Moe. Just look up any scene from a show called K-ON.

It's about 4 schoolgirls making a band, and all they do is sit around and eat cake and go to the beach...

[Cero]

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Apr 1 2013, 03:47 AM)

If you want the ultra definition of Moe. Just look up any scene from a show called K-ON. It's about 4 schoolgirls making a band, and all they do is sit around and eat cake and go to the beach...

and drinking some mother****ing tea.

[Fire Blazer]

hmm

I think I'm starting to get it

[Seraphinox]

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

Moe at the base level is just cute girls doing cute things if you had to define it

[kirant]

Colloquial and simply, it's basically that. That article I posted gives a pretty nice academic description:

QUOTE

I have shown how narratives and even reality are flattened to produce two-dimensional moe characters. Moe characters exist without context or depth, or as disengaged images that can be re-articulated endlessly without consequence or consistent generation of 'meaning.' Considering data gathered while interacting with otaku and fujoshi, I have argued that moe is a desire for the fantastical, not the physical. An attraction to the fantasy form does not necessarily reflect a desire for the physical one. One can have a younger sibling without feeling moe because that person is real and is not performing the character called 'little sister,' or simply because she is not a two-dimensional fantasy

Another article I've seen recently actually notes that the movie "End of Evangelion" had a lot to do with it and led to a wholesale shift in mentality into "You know what we need? Rei and Asuka doing cute things without being mindraped".

[Cero]

"moe moe kyun"

Oh god that phrase is embedded into my brain now.

I'm going to start watching Fate/Zero since I've been meaning to but never did.

[Fire Blazer]

@Seraph yay a simple explanation

sadly I am not into "cute" girls, only hot ones

[Seraphinox]

http://myanimelist.n..._Witch_Academia

Here to show us that Studio Trigger will be the one to save the industry one anime at a time

[Cero]

Just finished watching Welcome to the NHK!

Such a great show and had a pretty realistic ending. This show has made it into my top 5 and is the most relate able show I have seen.

[kirant]

Finished Psycho Pass.

It's unfortunate. It had so much potential. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it probably, when I look back a year from now to cast a real verdict on it, won't stand out as extraordinary and being worth the high ranking it's often given.

Personally, it's about 1/2 great, 1/2 monotonous single man vendetta which isn't anywhere near as interesting. I admit, I loved the first half the show, even if it was episodic. Literary references everywhere and some brilliant thoughts. Plato's Theory of Form was amazingly well used here and well explored. I really would have loved of they used the Allegory of the Cave at some point, but that's a bit simple and probably could be argued as outside the scope of such a work. I won't throw any spoilers out, but my HSQ (which TVtropes defines as the number of times you say "Holy s---" in a given episode) saturated during the mid-season finale. And, honestly, if the show ended there or turned to a more a cynical finale with a couple of the smaller reveals from the back half of the series thrown in, I think I would have pretty much fallen in love with the finale and thrown praise around the ending more than I do with Lain or Nadesico. There are great layers to the show in this aspect. Between the great juxtaposition of the cute "police" suits and the horribly dark work it's in, the beautiful interplay of a cerebral story and deep concepts, and questions similar to those posed in 1984, there is a lot to chew on.

Additionally, the character Ginoza actually had an incredibly interesting role. A couple spoiler related events were amazingly well played (in specific, when he got manhandled and why he let that go, in relation to spoiler related points) and he really felt like something that was done close to perfection, despite the obvious events handed to him after the spoiler related events occurred.

Also, I have to admit the rejection of the concept of strong romantic ties in this show to be a solid relief from the natural path these sorts of shows take. I'm not anti-romantic, but don't force it if it doesn't fit. These directors seemed to have taken it to heart. This, in relation to key plot points, probably would surprise the typical anime viewer.

The major problem with the show is that it's designed around less interesting characters as protagonist and antagonist. Your designated lead (and it's not the one that has as great a story potential for change) has the characterization of "angry, stoic man" with little deviation. The villain is a bit of a gimmick, albeit a cultured one, with little growth. He's pretty much as described later, a warped mind, straddling the lines of anarchist and terrorist. These sorts of characters, in comparison to some of the stronger heroes and villains in cast, probably could have been better fit as support roles. Really though, the villain selection was a great "character of the week" crop, but none that worked as a true antagonist. It's almost worth it for this sort of show to have had internal strife between protagonists with no antagonists, given the bleak nature. In this case, the villains aren't even the problem - it's just the job destroys you and everyone around you makes it tough to keep sane. A pretty cool way to approach the same dark world.

Really, I think focusing on the slow decomposition of their deuteragonist probably would have helped more, instead of focusing quite a bit on how two characters of the same mentality can be so vastly different. Maybe I'm a bit bitter from Tales of Vesperia, but the storylines generally don't play out as well as they can. I honestly found that (slight spoilers) slow burning out of optimism exciting, but sudden (oh fine, it still exists, but to a much different degree). It came in sudden jumps and doesn't really give much time to adjust to the changes. In particular, it all seems to happen within the span of 6 or so episodes from one end to the other. Part of the role of character development is to provide ample viewing time to make it feel natural. 6 episodes is 2 hours of user/media interaction and it's tough to fit that much in that short a span. Part of what I loved about Slayers NEXT is they told a love story that was gradual and progressed primarily over 19 episodes, even if it was just a backdrop. That felt real. Over 2 hours, it feels really sudden.

Another problem is that they seem to have a lot of walking scenery, since the focus was given to those two points, one of which played out well. Some of the characters were given minimal background and some were given just a day in the spotlight. And it really makes it tough for me to cry when they want me to cry when, to be honest, I didn't care about that character too much. I just ended with the thought of "...Well then.". The other had great potential. The backstory was, honestly, dripping with potential and future use to create tension and drama. And they really don't use the character for anything other than standing around or doing things to free up space for other characters (I mean, hell, for the climax, they just ask the character to stand around and guard a room. Realistic? Yes. But when that's basically your job the rest of the series, if feels like a waste, especially with the well done spotlight episode given). Oh, and looking pretty. Can't forget that one.

[Fire Blazer]

Finished Code Geass a little bit ago and finished Fate/Zero today.

***SPOILERS***

Both were good, but rather tragic, and I'm not usually a fan of tragedies for various reasons. Code Geass felt a bit rushed especially near the end of the second season and seemed to have some pointless things happen as well as various contradictions (C2 losing her memory, why didn't Lelouch think of making people his slaves earlier, all the Black Knights becoming stupid when it came to betraying Zero, etc.) and Fate/Zero a bit stale in a few parts (it felt like there were periods with little exciting action, and some of the characters were just bland in terms of depth/their general purpose there...). The positives most people already know so I'm not going to reiterate them. Both solid shows though, better than most of the garbage around the internet.

[Seraphinox]

Everything I'm watching is airing this season

Shingeki no Kyojin
Aku no Hana
Waterworld 2.0 with robots
Satan works at Mcdonalds (Maou-Sama)
Code Geass on drugs (Valvrave)
Railgun S
Date A Live


I have a humoungus backlog of crap, unfinished shows and fleeting dreams of starting new stuff. Maybe might get through it by the end of the summer