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Who is the Worst Character in the entire series?


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#21 Rujio

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:05 AM

Huh, I thought I heard that even with a Fred pair-up and a forge there's nothing that could be done with him. Maybe it was Lunatic+ where that's the case? Not sure. I don't actually own FE13 myself.

The fact that Bors manages to be so awful even with perfect availability is pretty sad. I dunno that you could really call anyone outclassed by any of the FE6 knights though. Even Barth only manages "hey if you give me an early promo (instead of promoting the paladins) I'm marginally mediocre for like three chapters before being useless again!"
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#22 Fire Blazer

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:16 AM

QUOTE
Not literally unusable, but nearly so.


this

ANYONE is usable because infinite stat boosts, grinding, money, items, easy EXP with DLC and skills, etc... >_>;

but on a "normal" playthrough of lunatic, he's pretty useless, yeah, I think he dies in 1-round to most generic enemies lol

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#23 ^Leo^

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:44 PM

But if you aren't looking at specific difficulties then donnel becomes one of the best units in the game. Anyway I have to cast my vote to one of those Cavaliers you get along with Hardin, Wolf, and sedgar. Neither of them could keep up with cain and Abel even with extreme babying.

#24 V'ren

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:13 PM

Donnel is indeed literally unusable without dlc grinding in L+, but that's true for everyone but Freddy anyways, eh? *shot*

He is super hard to train in Lunatic proper, but it CAN work out IF you can get him around 10/8 by chapter 10, then he's on his way to being a powerhouse. (The majority of his xp until about 10/5 is dual attack and archer killing)

Now keep in mind I'm not actually saying you should use Donnel, because he's a PoS, but I am saying it is possible to use him.
--
I think you could say that Bors is outclassed by the other Knights. I mean, at least Wendy almost has the potential to be almost-mediocre(iirc), and Barth is actually mediocre.
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Hey, at least you can sorta use Roshea and Vyland.

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#25 kirant

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 02:05 AM

QUOTE (Noel @ Jan 14 2014, 01:13 PM)
I think you could say that Bors is outclassed by the other Knights. I mean, at least Wendy almost has the potential to be almost-mediocre(iirc), and Barth is actually mediocre.

Not on an efficiency run...the effort to even bring Wendy to mediocre, as fun as it is to use her, makes her much worse.

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#26 Seraphinox

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:14 AM

I agree that it's disadvantageous as a whole to bring her, but I don't think it's too difficult to train her up, espcially in the chapter directly after the one you recruit her in (8x) has a handful of stationary units that she can easily get the last hit on. I've gotten her 4 level ups in that chapter alone.

I understand that's detracting exp from other units in the army but training her up in the early stages isn't too difficult if you make good use of chapter 8x.

It's the movement issue I think, I'm using her on my current playthrough, and all of the chapters require you to blitz through them in a flurry unless you want one of Village/NPC/Recruitable Unit to be killed or destroyed, and she just gets left behind on the far side of the map while everybody else charges like their's no tomorrow.
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#27 kirant

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:27 AM

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Jan 15 2014, 12:14 AM)
I disagree, the chapter directly after the one you recruit her in (8x) has a handful of stationary units that she can easily get the last hit on. I've gotten her 4 level ups in that chapter alone.

Efficient runs tend to prefer just not attempting to slowly take them down to HP she can actually kill with. It's unlikely through that perspective that she will gain too many levels.

From a "let's have fun" perspective, you can do that. And I get that her, Nino, and all the other Est types out there are great for curbstomping and babying. But from a "kill 'em as fast as I can" perspective (which is how I'm gauging best and worst characters), it's hard to set up those situations and Wendy can't get too much experience without either slowing down your team or reducing the optimization of movements by forcing you to use good units to scratch enemies for intentionally non-lethal damage. Without her there, the team moves so much faster and her gains, in my opinion, don't make up for it at the end. Especially since she's in a disadvantageous class.

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Jan 15 2014, 12:14 AM)
I understand that's detracting exp from other units in the army but training her up in the early stages isn't too difficult if you make good use of chapter 8x.

Ease, again, isn't the issue. It's ease mixed with how effectively you can do it without pulling resources from elsewhere to make it happen.

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#28 Seraphinox

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:33 AM

Hmm, Having looked at the chapter again, if you pair wendy up with two units who will act as a 'weakening squad', you can have the rest of your units bypass the stationary units so that Wendy can get to them while still beating the map in as fast a way as possible.

I'm looking far too into it because I do love Wendy and always find it so hard to use any of the Knights. That would net you about 2 levels of exp if done correctly.

Would you classify her as an 'Est' character? I mean, chapter 8 to me screams 'I should have come at lv.5 or so' archtype.
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#29 kirant

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:41 AM

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Jan 15 2014, 12:33 AM)
Hmm, Having looked at the chapter again, if you pair wendy up with two units who will act as a 'weakening squad', you can have the rest of your units bypass the stationary units so that Wendy can get to them while still beating the map in as fast a way as possible.

But the problem from a speed perspective is that you could probably just use one unit to sit by the enemy in question for a turn and kill it. That gives you two more units per turn to do looting and mayhem with. And if you don't think it's one unit, certainly two should. That still gives you a free unit which can help kill faster as oppose to move around with two units and do the exact same job.

Using Wendy in this regard is a risk/reward thing and that huge cost early isn't entirely justified by the payoff most of the time. If she were a 5 movement unit and had 50% growth in all attack stats across the board, she'd be amazing as a "fun" unit and as an efficiency unit.

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Jan 15 2014, 12:33 AM)
I'm looking far too into it because I do love Wendy and always find it so hard to use any of the Knights. That would net you about 2 levels of exp if done correctly.

I love using her too (I really do love the face sprite) and actively attempt to find ways to make her useful in my games, but in terms of the efficiency perspective, she's certainly one of the least optimal units in the game.

That's why I just don't do any efficiency runs.

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Jan 15 2014, 12:33 AM)
Would you classify her as an 'Est' character? I mean, chapter 8 to me screams 'I should have come at lv.5 or so' archtype.

That insane difficulty getting off the ground reminds me of that archetype. 4/3/3 starting offensive stats are abysmal.

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#30 AbsolutelyTotalSilence

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:00 PM

No one's mentioned Zealot? Zealot is so bad you can't even dislike him.
It's like...he fails so much more spectacularly than any other unit that it's actually IMPRESSIVE. FE6 Marcus is nearly as bad, as is FE7 Isadora. at least Isadora gives you an Angel Robe and a Silver Sword
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#31 Mercurius

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:32 PM

Hey now, Zealot's relatively useful for at least 2 chapters(the one he shows up in and right after...and maaaaaaaaybe a little in the isles where you can use him as a car) since he has the prepromote bases going for him(I mean compared to unpromoted bad characters, which are just...ugh.) And being a little better at being a meatshield(without being too slow to do the shielding part...at least on the offensive) helps too I guess.

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#32 Rujio

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:26 AM

Zealot has several things going for him. His bases are serviceable for a while, he's got his pick of your weapon pool, and he's got a horse. Then, once he's no longer useful, you can at least just drop him. Some units need to be bad before they can be good, but Zealot at least doesn't have to suffer through his bad-ness. Isadora's pretty similar. They're both underwhelming long-term, but they have their uses.
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#33 Ristau

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:59 AM

Every character in FE8 besides Seth. He can solo the game, therefore making every other character in that game essentially, useless.
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#34 Seraphinox

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 02:52 AM

But does that really count when Gilliam, Garcia, Franz and various others can also all solo the game?


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#35 Ristau

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 04:46 AM

No they can't you don't get them at chapter one AXAXAXAXAXAXAX!

Also Franz is a noob. I think Oblivion would agree with me
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#36 Rujio

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 05:49 AM

QUOTE (Seraphinox @ Jan 22 2014, 07:52 PM)
But does that really count when Gilliam, Garcia, Franz and various others can also all solo the game?

I find Garcia's and certainly Gilliam's odds dubious at best. I mean, if the RNG isn't kind Gill can find himself 2RKOd by axies in Ch. 2...

Franz, like everyone, is redundant at best if you use Seth. Without Seth he's pretty awesome, though. There's no one who can consistently replicate what he does, although he never has the same level of dominance as Seth.
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#37 Seraphinox

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE
I find Garcia's and certainly Gilliam's odds dubious at best. I mean, if the RNG isn't kind Gill can find himself 2RKOd by axies in Ch. 2...



I know Personal experience doesn't mean anything but I've done it with both of them. Garcia did get speed blessed (18 at 20/20) but both runs were actually really easy, just gotta keep Eirika out of danger
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#38 Mercurius

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 04:39 PM

that feel when 18 speed counts as blessed at 20/20

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#39 Bobryk

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:48 PM

QUOTE (Tenebrae Candidae @ Jan 23 2014, 11:39 AM)
that feel when 18 speed counts as blessed at 20/20


Poor guy.
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#40 Seraphinox

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:54 PM

When it comes to Ward/Dorcas/Garcia, most anything above 12 Speed is the best you can hope for.
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