115 replies to this topic

[Rujio]

L'arachel below Knoll, and MAYBE Knoll into Middle.

[Seraphinox]

Update to tier list

God Tier

Colm
Seth
Eph. Route Ephraim
Franz
Moulder
Tethys

High Tier

Vanessa
Lute
Eir. Route Gerik
Eph. Route Cormag
Natasha
Eir. Route Eirika
Artur
Eph. Route Duessel

Upper-Middle Tier

Kyle
Eir. Route Ephraim
Gilliam
Joshua
Forde
Tana
Neimi
Eir. Route Innes

Lower-Middle Tier

Eph Route Gerik
Garcia
Ross
Eir. Route Saleh
Eph. Route Eirika
Eir. Route Cormag
Rennac
Amelia/Eir. Route Marisa
L' Arachel

Low Tier

Eir. Route Duessel
Dozla
Myrrh
Eph. Route Saleh
Eph. Route Innes
Eph. Route Marisa

Bottom Tier

Knoll
Syrene
Ewan

[Dave Strider]

That's more like it, but I still say knoll to the bottom of bottom. We also need to have a tier below bottom tier called 'Traitor Tier' for Orson. If there isn't a joke tier then it's not a tier list.

@Rujio: Yes, but you can also do this thing on Ephraim Mode. It's called not evar using him and it's a good idea considering how badly Knoll sucks. Also, lol at Knoll above L'Arachel. If you were saying you need another healer, then bingo. L'Arachel is a much better healer than knoll due to having a pwny and better staff rank, plus earlier join time and actually existent supports.

[Falaflame]

I still dont understand why Knoll > Syrene. Syrene at least has existant durability, flyer utility, partial WT control, and never loses AS from a Killing Edge, which you can get from the shop in the chapter she's in. She also costs free to promote.

Knoll can insta-promote, but you dont get a Guiding Ring until Ch17, and that's if L'Arachel is not being fielded. There's a master seal, yes, but Knoll has heavy competition for that. Like I said in the other thread...

[Rujio]

Lol @ Knoll > L'arachel? Really? He CRUSHES HER. Especially on chapter 15. He has 12 ATK range, she can only move 1 space. He's invincible because phantoms have the highest attack priority. She gets ORKOd by everything on the map. Oh, and 1 move. She has physic. Except he can heal better and farther with HEAL. He's arguably your best non-flying unit (And we only have, Tana, Vanessa, and Cormag, and only Vanessa will be consistently used of those) while she is arguably worse than BASE EWAN. Well, let's just skip to chapter 17. He's 10/3, she's 10/1. Stats? He has 1 HP and .5 MAG vs. 2 SPD, 16-17 LUK, 5 DEF, and .5 RES. It SEEMS like she wins. However, he is doing better damage, can take the Hoplon Guard if he even needs it to stay away from crits. He also has summons. They are just awesome. 6-7 attack range in any direction? Guaranteed shield to save someone? The ability to do up to 3 things in one turn. He never has to see battle personally, and has Nosferatu to bolster his durablity. But really, those summons are awesome. They're better combat than L'arachel, they mean he can save anyone, they mean he's invincible, they mean he can do a bunch of things in one turn. She literally has physics and 3 chapters of healing to combat his HUGE wins in chapter 15 and later wins.

Edit: Oh, Zerker is better than Hero for Ross. At 10/20/1, they have the same speed, but Pirate has more speed than Fighter.

Edit #2: I feel as though this list is based a little too much on PE and not enough on facts, and having the list on page 6 is kinda annoying. I'm gonna make a new tier list if no one minds.

[Palabok]

Woot For Swordmasters!

[Falaflame]

I'm just going to ignore the big block of text you had for me Rujio, considering I wasn't even debaeting L'Arachel was better than Knoll, so you blew the whole thing to proportions there.

Knoll has summons, yes, but he needs to pay to get to promote. And he has competition, no matter what. The guiding ring is in Ch 17. So that's 3 whole chapters of doing absolutely nothing but suck. Master Seal is open to any class; not just magic users. I've already gone over the units that can be found wanting the Master Seal and all of them are better than Knoll.

Also, roster availability takes a toll here. Let's say you have to deploy 10 units (average per chapter). Right off the bat, you have:

Eirika (forced)
Ephraim (forced)
Seth
Franz
Moulder
Vanessa
Garcia
Lute
Artur
Colm

Even if we increase it to 13, you still have guys like:

Gilliam
Ross
Joshua
Natasha
Forde
Kyle
Tana
Cormag
Gerik
Tethys
Marisa

You have a grand total of 10 units vying for those 3 spots. And all of them are significantly, if not, miles better than Knoll. Considering the starters (excluding Eirika and Ephraim) should all be promoted by the time you get Knoll, you've got 10 units in line waiting to be promoted.

Also, needing a Hoplon Guard subtracts from his already awful durability. That's almost like saying Yunno can be a fine unit with the Delphi Shield in FE6, and we know how full of shit she was. I don't understand why needing a Hoplon Guard would make him not suck.

[Rujio]

HE DOESN'T NEED THE HOPLON GUARD. He never has to enter combat. But, if for some reason you do enter him in combat, the Hoplon Guard guarantees his survival.


Here's an idea for you: Promotion priority does not go to whoever's best. It goes to whoever gets the most out of it. No one goes from as bad as Knoll was to a decent unit. Except Knoll. Especially since this game throws a ton of promotion items at you. Are you using all of the cavaliers as well as Gilliam? I doubt it. Garcia, Joshua, AND Gerik? Not likely. Are you using L'arachel, Artur, Lute, Moulder, and Natasha on top of Knoll? Not likely. Especially when you consider the fact that people probably aren't going to start a playthrough where they plan to use all of those units that need the same promo item. They'll plan it so they have enough. The only time I see him having any problem with the Master Seal is Eir. Route. And even then, what he gets is worth so much more than what Forde gets.

For deployment, Garcia sucks past earlygame and Colm's combat isn't worth much, so he's only there for chests/stealing. Marisa sucks. How on earth can she be better than Knoll? Promoted Knoll is actually really helpful. Yeah, Kyle and Forde are better. Joshua might be at this point, might not. Gerik probably is. Tana? Good chance. Cormag? Yeah.

But, oh wait, THAT APPLIES TO EVERY UNIT. THEY ALL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MORE UNITS THAN DEPLOYMENT SLOTS.

[Falaflame]

[Rujio]

[Falaflame]

[Rujio]

[Falaflame]

*sigh*

you just don't get it don't you?

First come, first serve.

I'm done for now.

[Rujio]

I completely understand what you're saying. However, you're just sandbagging Knoll by saying that very unlikely circumstances are likely to happen.

[Green]

[Rujio]

Seth>Colm. Seriously, Seth soloing (or nearly) the first half of the game is the most efficient way to do it. Now, that generally isn't assumed so discussion is interesting, but he's still easily the best.

Eph. Ephraim down. He's great, but he's missing for 40% of the game. He simply isn't doing THAT much in that time. Especially relative to Franz, whose your second best unit for a good chunk of the earlygame and always remains amazing.

Moulder (and healers in general) WAY down. Their healing simply isn't worth that much in this game, and they're never, ever getting any sort of reasonable combat abilities.

Tethys down, too. This game is so Enemy Phase oriented that that one extra movement you get from her is not helping much. In fact, it's also likely easily replaceable by another unit that doesn't require us to protect him/her.

Artur and Lute need to be closer. His early game is superior to hers, and she by no means blows him away later.

Eir. Eirika down some. She's mediocre at best. Being forced means that anything she does is a plus, but she doesn't really do much.

Kyle and Forde WAY up. They're like Franz minus his earlygame. That doesn't justify a two tier gap. At least not in my mind.

Gill down. 4 MOV is just awful.

Neimi down. She's only just better than Ross when she joins, but he grows faster and ends up massively better. Her only chance at an enemy phase is after promotion. When she's locked to swords. With awful durability.

Eph. Gerik up. Yeah, he joins later. But not by much. He's still sitting on awesome base stats and is a good unit. There's no way he's worse than the likes of Gilliam and Neimi.

Okay, WTF is Eir. Saleh doing in Lower Mid? Joins with good mobility, freaking amazing offense, good durability, permanent 1-2 range, and is your best healer. He's at the very least top of Upper Mid.

Eir. Route Cormag, too. Insta promote, hey, look! Doubles almost everything forever! Has a good weapon level, so we can toss him good lances and he'll have great ORKO rates while flying anywhere he wants, being virtually invincible bar mages.

Eph. Eirika can probably stand to go up. She's still free deployment and helps some in the earlygame.

Uh, Amelia... Marisa... L'arachel.... in Lower Mid? That's beyond wrong. Amelia is without a doubt the single worst unit in the game. She's killed by everything, so all she can do is chip with a javelin. And how good she is at that! 10 ATK and 74 HIT while being incapable of doubling anything? In chapter TEN? Wow, that's totally beating Duessel showing up and performing decently starting in chapter 15.

Marisa? Well, she's better than Amelia at fighting... which is good since she's stuck at 1 range. However, she's always being, like, 3RKOd at best while the rest of your team is running around being 15HKOd. She'll also never, ever, ever, ever, ever reach consistent ORKOing. At best she'll rely on Killing edges and maybe ORKO 70% of the time while everyone else is ORKOing 100% of the time at 1-2 range without worrying about dieing. And this is AFTER she gets some levels and a promotion. Before hand, she's actually ORKOd by some enemies and has garbage offense. Like, so garbage the Shamshir should go to Joshua or Eirika because it isn't letting her KO unless she gets a critical hit on both attacks. When she doubles. Bottom of Low Tier at best.

L'arachel? Hello, I join at the very end of chapter 12. I have alright movement, but the moment I see terrain, I suddenly can't move very far. My durability is also absolute garbage, as is my potential offense. Well, if you can even get me to promotion. And I have D Staves, so I'm never going to be able to use physic effectively while Moulder, Saleh, and Natasha can. Maybe I'll get B staves eventually, but by then everyone's invincible so it hardly matters. Plus I have awful MAG, so I can't even really reach as far as they can with it.

Eir. Duessel up. He's a good candidate for the boots since he's still got alright offense, great durability, and is your best shot at a Garm user. That lets him keep up with your highest MOV units. Certainly not Low Tier material.

Myrrh? Really? If you're playing efficiently, those 50 uses will last you through the end of the game. Obviously not super high because she has no 1-2 range and has little availability, but she's still certainly a good unit while she's around.

Eph. Saleh up. He's still a decent healer and good chipper. Not up much, but some.

Eph. Marisa down. Remember Eir. Marisa? This is her but significantly worse. Easily Bottom Tier.

Knoll up. Why does everyone think he's so awful? He's got staves and summons, which are very, very underrated. Distracting Gorgons=good. They can also make bosses like Morva not obliterate your units on enemy phase and give him huge attack range. Don't pull the Master Seal garbage, either. First, he gets so much more out of it than anyone else that he gets it even if there is competition, second, this game gives you so many promotion items that it shouldn't be a problem anyways, and third, we have at least three by this time, and only Artur and Lute even have a good shot at promoting with one. This leaves one left over for him, and in 14 we just got a chance to buy promo items, as well.

Syrene up maybe? She can pull some rescue utility and has the triangle attack. She could help with OHKOing tougher bosses, at least.

Ewan? Well, as long as he's above Amelia. His 8 MT (magical) and 96 HIT beats Amelia's 10 MT (physical) and 74 HIT pretty clearly. Pretty much any DEF/RES gap means they're doing similar damage while he's pulling a 22 HIT lead cemented by 2RN.

Well, that sums up my problems with this list.

[Falaflame]

[Ezra]

pretty much everyone in fe8 is a god and Knoll should be higher tier, any dark user could solo anything so long as they're not asleep, so long as they have a nosferatu, I solo'd the lagdou ruins last floor with only Knoll.

And I never use Tethys I never saw the point to useing dancer's when you could just use a different unit, unless your trying to reach a certain spot or do a speedrun.

[Falaflame]

[Rujio]

I wouldn't place Knoll in Lower Mid, personally, although I can see him above Rennac...