730 replies to this topic

[Fire Blazer]

oh yeah I picked up Ano Hana some time ago, it's got some plot holes and poor development IMO--it's suuuuch a drama show--but I still found it to be somewhat interesting. idk if I'll finish it though, we'll see I guess

[Mercurius]

I tried watching that because people told me there was crossdressing involved. I think I found it unbearable by episode 3 or something. Too TEEN DRAMA or something, and not that easy to make fun of either. (For an example of TEEN DRAMA that is extremely easy to make fun of, there's Shakugan no Shana S1/S2. It's just so gloriously dumb without being streamlined like harem hijinks or something, like it was meant to be relatable for fanfic-writing shippers over at deviantart or something.)

[Fire Blazer]

yeah it's super TEEN DRAMA and that's part of the problem, most of the time is just spent being super dramatic and not actually building relationships or showing relationships established before the main timeframe of the show, and there is a tiny bit of cross-dressing but it's nothing that notable IMO I don't think you'd like it

 

I tend to prefer intelligent shows with well-written characters and minimal things like "misunderstandings"/dumb coincidences, harems,fan service, dirty jokes,and plotholes... I'm ok with a light-hearted show too but when it comes to character interactions my preferences are shifting to "I want something more realistic" as opposed to "i'm ok with this being super dumb", e.g. baka to test to whatever, that show was incredibly stupid and though it had some funny moments I just couldn't value the show enough to continue watching it, like it wasn't respecting itself enough for me to respect it, or something...

[Mercurius]

I think Baka Test respects itself pretty well. In that the author seems to actually care about what they do with it, that they have fun with it, kind of like Ore, Twintail ni Narimasu. Totally dumb sure but the author does that because they embrace it more than anything. Of course, this is not to say that can't be bad, just that earnest efforts are made for it to be their work instead of some throwaway formula.

 

Also virtually everything has plotholes, regardless of subject matter and how intellectually-flavored it's trying to be. In Spice and Wolf(one of those "oh man I'm so sick of shonen stupidity so let's go with this smart show of mature intellectualism!" shows), for example, the demand for full-plate suits of armor becomes very low due to the lack of necessity for it, and is thus so devalued the protagonist has to put up with making up for his huge investment mistake. Except, that armor is something that demands high levels of craftsmanship and labor, high maintenance, is known to have been created by a big name brand, and incredibly unlikely to be worthless due to how it has not been made obsolete by new, widespread technology. Even if you can't use it for soldiers, you can use it for elite guards. Even if they don't want it either, it serves purpose as a fairly popular piece of decoration. The armor simply cannot become worthless until it has been made obsolete (and even now in our time period where they have become useless for warfare and impractical for security guards or police or something, it is being sold for high values for other purposes) and if people insist on deciding that it has virtually no value, it could be a better idea to convert it into raw materials. It's much more likely for it to remain expensive and simply have no one willing to purchase it if the demand is low, as there's no reason for the supply(particularly since they were high quality goods) to be easy to come by either.

 

On the subject of realism, I can say that Shakugan no Shana's TEEN DRAMA moments are quite believably realistic. It's just also really dumb and extremely easy to make "abridged series" monologues over what they are doing(while still sounding accurate), because realism, in spite of all the praise it gets in fiction, doesn't necessarily lead to situations of people being rational. (I mean, fanfic-writing shippers over at deviantart do exist.)

[Nils]

I've actually been meaning to watch Spice and Wolf, is it any good?

Sort of a noob to anime in general. I'm branching into it more though.

[Fire Blazer]

*shrug* welp, different opinions and tastes, I guess

 

 

Also virtually everything has plotholes

 

well sure, but how much do they actually affect one's immersion and perception of the show? that's like saying "everything has flaws, nothing is perfect". well duh, a game that scores 20/100 on Metacritic and a game that scores 80/100 on Metacritic both have flaws, but what's the magnitude of the flaws and how they affect one's overall enjoyment

 

I only really care if that part is important to the main plot etc.

 

for instance, in One Piece, the main character has some inconsistencies in how his rubber form is treated ((clothes stretching or not stretching with him, being hit/bruised like a normal person, etc) but does thsi really affect the story? no, it's just an aesthetic, and in general, things don't make perfect sense because it's inconvenient for it to

 

in other cases, I've seen there be easy solutions to problems that were just passed by where it seems like the story is completely ignoring various aspects/options and is just kind of forcing the story to be a certain way just because

 

that can be bothersome because I can't take a story that seems to be taking itself seriously, seriously, if it's highly flawed. at least a show like baka test is dumb but is supposed to be dumb, so I can overlook it under that pretense (even if it's not very entertaining to me), but a show that's dumb when it's not trying to be... yeahh, no

 

idk if that made sense but w/e lol

[Mercurius]

I have a negative opinion of Spice and Wolf, but this is almost entirely because of how I don't like how the heroine talks like she's over 70. (This is also the very same reason a lot of other people like her.) I found it fairly boring myself (and it wasn't because of the subject matter) but it was still fairly watchable for one run. Just don't expect it to do anything that will really stick out in your memory. Except that armor thing if you think about it.

 

well sure, but how much do they actually affect one's immersion and perception of the show?

Not possible to answer properly. I watch all of Sword Art Online noticing zero plotholes. Other people scream at the plotholes like it destroys the integrity of all storytelling.

 

that can be bothersome because I can't take a story that seems to be taking itself seriously, seriously, if it's highly flawed. at least a show like baka test is dumb but is supposed to be dumb, so I can overlook it under that pretense (even if it's not very entertaining to me), but a show that's dumb when it's not trying to be... yeahh, no

It's mostly dumb because of its target demographic. When watching the show you really have to ask how anyone that's hit puberty for over a year can take anything about how it treats romance seriously.

[Fire Blazer]

 

Not possible to answer properly. I watch all of Sword Art Online noticing zero plotholes. Other people scream at the plotholes like it destroys the integrity of all storytelling.

 

ok, everyone's going to differ, but IMO you can't look at the exceptions; people who notice nothing/don't pay much attention to such issues and people who scrutinize things for various reasons (humor, for the sake of bashing that which is popular/well-liked, for the sake of attention/views on YT [e.g. reviews], for the sake of being a contrarian, because they're just overly critical and negative) are kind of on the north and south pole of things, if you know what I mean.

 

I don't remember what my original point was, but while it's difficult to pinpoint, there's some concept out there of a standard to analysis and criticism that isn't too little or too far, and ofc even within that it varies, but essentially, if it doesn't take much peeping to notice flaws, those flaws are probably... well, notable, but if it takes a lot of peeping or is inessential to the main point of the material, then that's something else, being nitpicky or something

 

and ofc, personal preferences, opinions, mindsets, etc., but people don't get anywhere by always bringing that up, again, at some point we have to have some general concept of a standard and just judge things and say what's good or ok and what isn't

 

I don't remember what my original point was, but I personally don't go looking for major issues in storytelling or a plot, so it only bothers me if it pops up to me and I feel like addressing that issue could potentially change the show/how things go

 

to be more specific, here's an example of an issue in One Piece that while bad, didn't kill things for me (though it did maybe sting a tiny bit waaaay after, once I had thought about it a little more)

 

Spoiler

Akainu (Magma power) kills Ace (fire power) and supposedly the reason he can do so is that Akainu's fruit is in a level of superiority... however, this honestly doesn't really make sense, I mean, fire is practically always hotter than magma, and can be several times hotter, and it isn't really explained beyond "Akainu's fruit is superior"... but even so, Akainu could have just used haki to attack Ace, it could easily be explained away through that and it seems more like some kind of a slip-up in planning/execution which is super rare for Oda, the creator... point being, even if Akainu's fruit weren't superior and he were forced to properly explain how Akainu's attack dealt such severe damage, Oda could without much problem

 

on the other hand, in Ano Hana, there's this ghost of a character but she can interact with various objects and it's really weird, and quite frankly I find it dumb that they never seem to try to exploit her ability to interact with stuff, it's just kind of like "here's a ghost and the rules regarding her are... whatever"

 

like for instance, no one ever happens to bump into her, she can make people feel heavy or make them have goosebumps, she can make objects float apparently? and she can make glasses tip over, and doors open, but she never tried to do any of this stuff to prove she existed to other people, she never tried to write or record her voice (as far as we know), and in general it just seems like the author wanted the plot element of having a ghost but wanted her to conveniently be able to do things in various situations: she can eat food and shower but she's a freaking ghost and she *has* to interact with various stuff, and yet what, her clothes are magically invisible but she can wear clothes/towels, she can eat food but... what happens to that food and how does it appear to someone when she's eating it? and she can make food but that too is odd.... and ugh... I couldn't take things seriously when there was potential for resolving the conflict by proving some kind of "spirit" was there but they never try to until veeeery late and even once they do it's like, ok, now she can do something, how come she tried now, and knew what to do, and... it's an anime, yeah, but I need some help keeping the suspension of disbelief there.

 

like with SAO, Kirito could walk after getting out of SAO, I might understand that if technology were significantly better and able to keep him in better shape, I guess, but that didn't seem the case... but even so, ok, willpower/love for Asuna, fine, it's epic... and then later, I think a character gets HIV due to a blood transfusion or something, I can't remember, but that's also dumb and kinda not realistic, and in this case, whether it's a notable plothole or not depends on how informed one is on the matter: to me, I'm not knowledgeable in medical matters so someone had to tell me that it's dumb for a world in the future to have such a thing happen when it should have stopped happening in the real world a while ago already, but to them it was like "man this is pretty lame" and I can't really blame them for having their suspension of disbelief broken or whatever

 

alright I'm just kinda rambling incoherently now I'm going to shut up without making any sort of conclusion, I don't even know what i'm talking about or mean myself or how I feel or askdjoiasudioasduasd I DON'T KNOW, BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

[Mercurius]

I think a character gets HIV due to a blood transfusion or something, I can't remember, but that's also dumb and kinda not realistic, and in this case, whether it's a notable plothole or not depends on how informed one is on the matter: to me, I'm not knowledgeable in medical matters so someone had to tell me that it's dumb for a world in the future to have such a thing happen when it should have stopped happening in the real world a while ago already, but to them it was like "man this is pretty lame" and I can't really blame them for having their suspension of disbelief broken or whatever

Her mother had the blood transfusion on 2011 post-caesarean section, so you can't involve future technology. (I don't know if this had stopped being a problem by then.) Presumably both daughters got the infection from breastfeeding while the father got it from having sex with the now infected mother. The light novel was also chronologically bumped by 10 years to make it futuristic again(author be like: "What do you mean the Oculus Rift isn't good enough for Aincrad yet?"), the original web novel has the story start from 2012, which would mean that her mother had the blood transfusion on 2001 initially. (Still don't know if it stopped being a problem by then.)

 

On the subject of THE FUTURE, amusingly Kirito had only recently replaced the HDD in his PC with an SSD. Plus according to the anime smartphones haven't changed 10 years from now.

[Fire Blazer]

welp, too confusing/inconsistent for me

 

i just don't give a crap anymore

 

hardly did in the first place

[Nils]

Tbh, I don't really look too deeply into the story to look for plot holes. I merely just enjoy the anime or manga as I see/read it. If you look into just about any story, there WILL be plotholes. Someone, somewhere will notice it.

SAO has plotholes, but I love it all the same <3

[Fire Blazer]

Tbh, I don't really look too deeply into the story to look for plot holes. I merely just enjoy the anime or manga as I see/read it. If you look into just about any story, there WILL be plotholes. Someone, somewhere will notice it.

SAO has plotholes, but I love it all the same <3

 

so, pretty much exactly what I was saying earlier? but like I said, sometimes they just pop up and are way too obvious and I'm like "man, that couldn't have happened" or "man, that just doesn't make any sense". it's like noticing something looks, sounds, feels, or taste bad. you can't just ignore it when it's right there, IMO. turning off your brain and watching or reading something sounds dumb to me because how can you enjoy the good parts if you're not thinking about how good they are? and in appreciating what something does right, you can only really appreciate it as much as you do because others don't do it as well, or because it's done well, which essentially means you didn't notice things it didn't do well and the like.

 

in other words, I think it's important to find a balance of actually paying attention and trying to enjoy something but not being so mindless you're unaware of flaws etc.

 

you don't want to be too critical because it ruins enjoyment, sure

 

but if you're just blindly praising everything for being great like XT/Generic_soldier does, then I'm inclined to think you're not actually paying attention to what you're experiencing which means A) you're not experiencing it to the fullest of its capacity because a lot of shows aren't that good when you don't think, IMO, and quite frankly your experiences might be kind of superficial or even just dumb because you might be believing in something that isn't really well-written or executed well but you're deluding yourself into thinking it is because you never actually seriously thought about it

 

examples:

Gatchman Crowds (both the first season and the on-going scene): this is an intelligent, provocative anime. I don't think you should be watching it if you're just going to watch it without actually reflecting on the themes, conflicts, and ideals presented within, because the show has very minimal action and almost no romance or comedy. the thing is, you can afford to think about it in an intelligent manner because it actually holds up when you do, it's not perfect but it's very much well-executed, as opposed to a show where the more you analyze it, some parts can easily seem worse

 

Code Geass: again, a relatively intelligent show that sometimes suffers from pacing and other problems. you don't need to critically analyze it like a reviewer or something, but I don't think you can properly appreciate some of the things there without thinking... and this is a show that IIRC (been a while since I watched it) spells out a lot of things for you, so in a way you don't even have to do a lot of thinking

 

Thinking about a show can result in good/bad, but I think the benefits outweigh the cons greatly

 

in One Piece you might notice poor production values and lots of filler, but the subject material itself is very deep and Oda does not spell everything out for you, even if he spells out a fair amount. you can enjoy One Piece just for the fights, sure, but you're only experiencing maybe 25-50% of the entire manga (or show) that way. the reason why I'm such a huge One Piece fan is precisely because I moved on from just absorbing the anime like a mindless zombie and started thinking about the content proposed to me, and the benefit is a newfound, enlightened appreciation for the work

 

in SAO you might realize it's not nearly as good as it may seem... but also you might realize a lot of things it doesn't spell out for you: Kirito's and Asuna's true feelings about how they're trapped in the game, how their mind works and was shifted by that experienced (in other words, psychology stuff), even SAO can be insightful at times. you just have to know when to draw the line

 

like on the other hand, if you just casually watch SAO and think it has a SUPER AMAZING STORY, I'm going to disagree with you, and SAO is one of my favorite anime series. I'm going to say you're dumb because saying SAO has an amazing story is an insult to actual amazing stories. just like how I can't give the anime I previously mentioned, Ano Hana, 5 out of 5 stars, because it has issues that hurt my immersion and it wouldn't be fair to just play dumb and ignore those when it COULD have been much better if better-executed, and when other anime have executed themselves better.

 

in short, I think enjoying any sort of thing like this: a book, a comic, a show, whatever, should be a mix of just relaxing and enjoying, but also not averting your eyes to the finer elements.

 

now notice I just said don't avert your eyes. I didn't say keep your eyes peeled and stare it down looking for problems. that sounds awful and you might want to take a chill pill at that point because you won't be able to enjoy anything like that, IMO. but at the same time, it bothers me when people just enjoy whatever the heck is thrown at them because to me it's just like, are you really even watching the show at that point? and the answer to me is probably no, because when I've talked to people like this, it's pretty much just as I said, they're only appreciating a fraction of what's thrown at them, maybe that's the fights, or the fan-service, or the romance, or the comedy, but it's only a fraction. there are some shows that are fine like this: Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun, for instance, is actually the kind of show you can sit down and almost purely enjoy because it will just make you laugh. There are also shows like Non Non Biyori or whatever where again, you're actually kind of better off turning your brain off for a while. but for the most part, the expression "ignorance is bliss" is only true some of the time. knowing the truth is great when the truth is good, and not so great when the truth is bad, but even so, I like to be smart, and that starts with knowing the truth (or at least opening your eyes to possibilities of the truth), because otherwise I'd just be a fool.

 

and maybe some people are content with being fools, but that's something I can't really understand~

[Mercurius]

are you really even watching the show at that point?

/wouldprobablybekeepingKuusenMadoushiaudio-onlyifitwasn'tforthetwintails

 

it's like noticing something looks, sounds, feels, or taste bad. you can't just ignore it when it's right there, IMO.

A lot of people ignore that. It's pretty much the only possible way for me to tolerate the existence of ugly people in real life. (It gets difficult when they touch me or say anything without others to drown out the noise though.)

because you might be believing in something that isn't really well-written or executed well but you're deluding yourself into thinking it is because you never actually seriously thought about it

I have an aversion to what's considered well-written in the first place a lot of the time (or don't really care), so even if I seriously think about it I'll be focusing all of my effort into incredibly biased reasons anyway. On that note, there actually are parts of Kirito that I don't like, and things that makes me go THAT NEVAR HAPPEND, but I prefer to pretend I forget those parts exist by focusing too much on his good points like spouses and friends all over the world. In a place where you can never expect to find who you really wanted, what is there to find refuge in but delusion? And nobody ever criticizes him for those specific parts that I dislike anyway.

 

There are some things about SAO where it becomes bothersome, like how Kirito never uses magic ever again in ALO(I would give reasons for why he does this but the author has not really detailed how ALO works enough to warrant anything more than a few guesses on conventions), but this is overshadowed by far by how they NEVER EAT ASIAN FOOD, which is much less relevant to good writing. (I know Kirito, Asuna, and Heathcliff eat at a ramen place at some point. That's also pretty much the only time I can think of this happening, outside of when Asuna gave Kirito miso soup in Hollow Fragment except the rest of the meal wasn't Asian there either and asasdjjskf;hwkjerwrewhoevenwantsmisosoupwithsandwiches)

I didn't say keep your eyes peeled and stare it down looking for problems.

There's something interesting about how most critics that get far enough into hating something do, they slander it with made-up problems like a sensational journalist. I don't think the vast majority of people actually ever do what you said, a lot of people simply listen to whatever someone else has said and make it their own opinion, a lot of problems they see only exist because they weren't paying attention and looking only at the most shallow reasons they can think of for it to be what they criticize it for, and a lot of the time they can't even really find that many problems and so generalize it as having tons of it (for example, for all the plotholes people have claimed SAO has, they extremely rarely ever elaborate.) Even people who are professional critics can't really be assed because actually doing this requires far too much analysis and would overwhelm anyone that would have read the review if it was too detailed anyway.

 

In terms of how well-written something is, Sword Art Online, Assassination Classroom, and Fire Emblem(with a few big exceptions like RD and if I guess since your units can be the enemy side) all share the quality of making the protagonist side more visually pleasing than the opposition, with the opposition also emphasizing on their nastiness. This is ridiculously obvious, even everyone's favorite psycho Karma doesn't look as mean as the principal's what-do-you-mean-he-isn't-Karma's-brother son. I could get into all kinds of moral, literary, and political debates about this copying other people's arguments, but fuck that, it's not like it matters for people I hate to be ugly or not anyway. My personal biases absolutely crush any possible "objective" problem out there when it comes to level of enjoyment(and repeated enjoyment), whether I recognize what people would find objectionable about it or not.

 

Even Oregairu is very easy for me to take in the majority of the time, in spite of it being a difficult show to turn your brain off on. But I don't necessarily respect or enjoy the show more for its intelligence, that's just there. It could be dumber like Season 1 episode 13 and I would be totally fine watching it. This is because I place almost zero value on substance in the form of realism(or rather, I guess I actually do like it when realism shows up, just not the same realism most people want) and how much it challenges your intelligence(which Oregairu doesn't even do for the most part because most of what it shows me aren't foreign concepts or experiences already, so there's very little for me to think over) but place high value on a variety of character interactions, which it excels at. Having a variety of character interactions in itself is apparently useless when it does not add to the character in the specific way critics would want it to(almost always related to flaws), but to me it's the most important resource for learning about someone in fiction, regardless of what the interaction is.

 

I do realize that I am, in fact, doing what you're saying by the way. But in not averting my eyes, there's very different concerns that result. The standards that the argument is supposed to be advocating for stop applying. I remain a fool nonetheless, and am content doing so. Is that understandable? I know it wouldn't be for Cero.

 

Clearly what we really need to do is team up against the shippers. Those are the real problem.

[Fire Blazer]

*reads, acknowledges, nods*

 

Well, maybe in retrospect, I was a bit harsh. Ultimately, my view of "averting your eyes" or not is just one view. One might say it's difficult to avoid looking at problems and just accept the good things and to ignore the bad. Everyone ultimately has different circumstances and experiences. Like after reading what you said, I can't really judge you as a "fool" in the way that I meant it. Because you're clearly thinking and understanding what you're doing, you just came to a different conclusion to things than me, you act differently, and I can't blame you for that, we're all different.

 

See, I'm aware that some of the shows I watch have some if not a lot of problems. I know there might be issues with them that I don't think are issues or that I just never thought of. But even so, I'm thinking, and if I choose to like something anyway, that's fine. I don't really consider that "averting my eyes", or at least a bad form of it.

 

 

On that note, there actually are parts of Kirito that I don't like, and things that makes me go THAT NEVAR HAPPEND, but I prefer to pretend I forget those parts exist by focusing too much on his good points like spouses and friends all over the world.

 

I mean, that's cool. But you aren't going around talking about how Kirito is perfect or the smartest anime character ever or something. Also, you aren't one of those people who is literally obsessed with one aspect of a show to the point that it feels like they're watching a different show: for instance, people obsessed with "power levels" (who is stronger/would win in an all-out fight between X and Y) in shows like One Piece, DBZ, SAO, etc., or people who only care about shipping characters, lol. Or maybe I'm just overreacting and these people only APPEAR to only be aware of one aspect of a show, but they're secretly aware of the deeper aspects? But based on how they act, esp. if you confront them about the topics, I'm generally led to the conclusion they aren't.

 

I guess ultimately, to be blunt, I just want people to be a bit smarter. Which is a mean, arrogant, and elitist thing of me to say, but when you really think about it, what's wrong with wishing people would be/act smarter? I mean, intelligence is good, right? There are some motivations for which you don't want people to be smart (usually when you want to manipulate them), but for the most part, intelligent discussions are way better than non-intelligent ones. :\

 

 

There's something interesting about how most critics that get far enough into hating something do, they slander it with made-up problems like a sensational journalist. I don't think the vast majority of people actually ever do what you said, a lot of people simply listen to whatever someone else has said and make it their own opinion, a lot of problems they see only exist because they weren't paying attention and looking only at the most shallow reasons they can think of for it to be what they criticize it for, and a lot of the time they can't even really find that many problems and so generalize it as having tons of it (for example, for all the plotholes people have claimed SAO has, they extremely rarely ever elaborate.) Even people who are professional critics can't really be assed because actually doing this requires far too much analysis and would overwhelm anyone that would have read the review if it was too detailed anyway.

 

PARAGRAPH OF TRUTH. This is great insight and I'm inclined to agree with most if not all of it. People definitely like to hop on bandwagons of criticisms/hate and often times really are unable to actually elaborate on themselves. Admittedly, if you asked me to list the issues in SAO, I could probably do some, but it might be my first time really trying, and I'd have to push myself a bit, haha. For each and every show, I must find that balance between "paying too much attention" and "not paying enough"; SAO is the kind of show that I tend to relax more and enjoy because I can quickly see what it's like. To me, it's apparent it's not a very "dark" or "heavy" show.

 

I suppose this is where the argument that people can enjoy shows however they like comes into play... and that I shouldn't expect them all to enjoy it in the same way I do... true, and we could end the discussion right there, but my arguments are multiple: 1) they're not enjoying it as much, 2) the resultant discussion tends to be dumb, 3) people are enjoying shows for reasons that don't make sense given the content of the show (i.e. there are better options).

 

1) doesn't take much explanation, but simply put: if you watch all shows with your mind turned off, it's either going to be average, good, or bad, probably. In a way, that's nice because a terribly bad show will only be bad, and this is kind of why I either don't watch bad shows or just stop caring/paying much attention to the details when watching them, BUT on the other hand, a really good show will only be good, and you're missing out because you're just kind of letting your eyes look at the screen but not truly absorb everything that's going on (because IMO good shows will often have a lot of subtle story-telling, character development, etc. that people might not realize).

 

2) a lot of the times people will try to talk seriously about a show but their words show they don't actually seem to be paying that much attention to what happens: like for instance, if you're only going to focus on fights in One Piece, fine, but at least don't say dumb stuff like "Zoro is stronger than Luffy" or "anyone could have taken out _____ it didn't have to be Luffy" >_>.

 

3) can be related to two. take Oregairu or AC. Even though the former is a deep/insightful show about character relationships (with some romance and comedy) and the latter is a comedy/growing-up anime (with some elements of action and a tiny bit of romance), you'll see people care about literally nothing but shipping people, and regardless of whether it actually makes sense in the context of the story or not. If you ARE going to be a shipper

 

 

Clearly what we really need to do is team up against the shippers. Those are the real problem.

 

(cough I'm with Merc here, we need to team up)

 

anyway

 

if you ARE going to be a shipper, there's ways to be intelligent about it. For instance, in Oregairu, I don't like to admit it, but Hachiman is most likely, if anyone, to build an intimate relationship with Yukino. That much is obvious. I could present reasons as to why if I wanted. HOWEVER, maybe I'm an Isshiki fan. I could come up with cool moments as to how they get together and actually use some of the character development and plot as a basis for why they'd make a good pair! Without you know, calling other characters names/getting super defensive or aggressive or turning into some kind of perverted slut. I mean, if you're a perv, fine, but keep that stuff to yourself, please. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean we want to know

 

see, even if you choose to a enjoy a show in a way different from others, in a way that perhaps the show didn't intend you to, or for a small part of a show... if that's your preference, and you're aware you're doing it, fine... but you can still do it relatively intelligently. without just turning your brain off.

 

TRUE TL;DR

BE AWARE OF THE SHOW YOU'RE WATCHING. GOOD, BAD, NEUTRAL. THE THINGS YOU WATCH FOR AND DON'T WATCH FOR. JUST BE AWARE AND RESPECT IT, AND YOU'RE FINE IMO. (And if it's not relatively obvious, you're not expected to be aware of it IMO.)

 

I'm not sure how I ended up ranting about this, but whatever

 

for the record I don't mean to accuse anyone here of being a fool or anything

 

I've mostly just got some pent-up rage at a lot of people I see on the internet, so to speak. And I wanted to let it out. XP

[Mercurius]

I mean, that's cool. But you aren't going around talking about how Kirito is perfect or the smartest anime character ever or something.

Oh, certainly. While he may be the most cute, sweet, funny, cool, dreamy, silly, dote-worthy, awe-inspiring, euphonious angel of hope that brings to me all that may be good in this wor-
 

Also, you aren't one of those people who is literally obsessed with one aspect of a show to the point that it feels like they're watching a different show

huh uh I mean um wut oh yeah right totally sure all objective up in here, man

 

2) the resultant discussion tends to be dumb

There are people who try to think about shows in a smart way that end up sounding like they have no credibility anyway at times. Like pretty much everyone that talks about how Sinon has so much of a better personality than Asuna...that then go on to focus on her ass.

 

On the subject of expectations dissonance, I've also recently seen some people talk about how Monster Musume no Nichijou is like totally a great show and a must watch for the season and everything. I saw the opening for about 10 seconds, promptly facepalmed, and closed the video. (Even Highschool DxD didn't manage to do that, which is saying something.)

[Fire Blazer]

LOL

 

lolol

 

AHAHAHAHA

 

sorry, the first 3 parts of your post were all kinda funny to me =P

 

but in all serious Merc, you're fine, I can continue to try to setup general statements about what I think is dumb or not dumb but ultimately it comes down to the person and how they present themselves and act and whatnot

 

 

On the subject of expectations dissonance, I've also recently seen some people talk about how Monster Musume no Nichijou is like totally a great show and a must watch for the season and everything. I saw the opening for about 10 seconds, promptly facepalmed, and closed the video. (Even Highschool DxD didn't manage to do that, which is saying something.)

 

I'm not going to bother even looking at it based off of what you said. If you facepalmed that quick and the title is... well, what you said... uh... >_>; I'm good, don't need to check that out. :\

[^Leo^]

That show is literally just boobs. Like it's not about anything else(12 year old zak read the manga a bit because 12 year olds are far too curious about boobs)

[Mercurius]

The title could have been just indicated a slice of life that involved a wacky spin on it like Hataraku Maou-sama, (although first you would have to explain why all of them are girls, I would totally be down for trying it if there were some cute male vampires or angels since japan likes to use those as enemy monsters in videogames for some reason) or some kind of excuse to explore the effect they would have on the world and talk about discrimination and group arrogance, but the opening pretty much says lolno to that.

[^Leo^]

Actually in one(and as far as I'm aware only one) chapter they do discuss discrimination against the monster girls. I don't remember which chapter, but it was a really early one. Anyway the MC punches a guy through a door because he was a dick to the lamia. And there was something about a guy who stole harpy eggs and sold them as well, but i can't remember exactly what that was.

[Mercurius]

The MC is human though, isn't he? Whatever they do involve in it it'd probably feel kind of like it misses the point like those movies where a european/american guy shows up to a group of more primitive customs who then turns out to be like the best guy they have (and of course happens to score a kiss/sex with some native) that has to fight against people of his former culture or something.

 

but seriously where are all the cute male vampires, they already go with the excuse of "totally old enough even though she looks prepubescent because magic/vampirism/whatever" for women all the time